New Player Got Kicked During Lost City of Mhach BY A MENTOR

[Violyre]

The addition of "by a mentor" is very pointless. Your friend would've still been kicked if there was no more mentor system.

I'm not saying it's right to kick a new person. What I'm saying is that the mentor system isn't bad, bad players using the mentor system is bad.

[Evergrey]

I think SE should change the mentor icon to something horrendous, so that the special snowflakes using the mentor symbol for elitism won't be attracted to it.

Even if the icon would be a pile a dung people would still use it. because it's "special" and not something *Everyone* have access too.
They don't use it for the crown alone, they use it because it makes them stick out.

[Watachy]

All this mentor hate looks like a SJW IG event.

"Oh my god he has a crown and i don't, did he just assume my playstyle?"

[Gemina]

No one who has been a mentor would say something like this though so I am assuming you don't do Mentoring for battle content?

I mentor battle content I know, all the time. I just don't have a mentor status icon, nor need one to mentor said content. However, I think you are misreading my intent. The reason why I don't like mentors having this option is because of the ease to abuse this status. Mentors, like forum moderators are best left out of conflict amongst other players. This is not their role to participate in, or instigate by any means. I am not saying they can't vote. I am saying they can't initiate it.

Your idea here would be perfect if all "new players" were saint-like and did no wrong. Unfortunately "new players", just like "Mentors", share the fact they are all human beings behind a computer who definitely aren't saints and are definitely capable of committing wrongs.

But some are saints. From the time I've spent here, I would consider you one of them, among several others, also add in all the players that have helped me, along with those that I have helped in return who then return that kindness to other players, and it goes on and on. I've never known you to have a defeatist kind of mentality towards the community in general like you speak here. It is the reality. I know it is. But those who push positive influence in the community like you so often have, need to continue to push. When you think about real life mentors, they actually have very few privileges based on their status if not less than the common-joe.

Yes, a mentor should never kick a new player for wrong reasons....BUT, new players aren't automatically exempt from being vote kicked if they are harassing/insulting others. A mentor has full right and responsibility to kick someone, new player or not, if they are harassing/insulting someone in chat. Verbal harassment or trolling should never be tolerated.

In a proper state, a mentor's influence alone would be enough. They would simply have to tell the party leader to initiate a vote kick, or agree with it. But not initiate it themselves. I am definitely not saying that they should not have the right to kick, regardless if they are new or toxic. Truly toxic players are in disgust of the other members of the group in general, and unless they are with enough friends to negate a kick, most will favor the person being dismissed.

There are also other valid reasons like AFK with no word to the group and doesn't come back or a new player who disconnects and doesn't come back online.

Yes, of course. Again though, the mentor's vote as an individual, really won't matter because in such cases everyone will agree to kick regardless of status.

I mean I've been in dungeon runs where we had 3 mentors and a new player. If the new player happen to lose connection and not come back we'd all be unable to kick them, or if they AFK'd and never came back we'd not be able to remove them either to continue the content. I mean AFK and disconnects happen; most people wait a bit, but eventually its clear they aren't coming back so what do we do then if we can't vote kick? One of us would have to leave first and take a DF penalty and won't be able to queue for 30 minutes and the other two would have to requeue and start over.

This has rarely happened for me, but the fact that it does happen indeed does warrant a step back to look at the repercussions. A disconnect is always detectable, and the option to have this as your reason for dismissing is there, as some people don't have that kind of time to spare. I have also been in instances where there is more than one mentor, and that is the true constraint. But I think by not being able to initiate a kick is enough to get over that. Even in a 4-man with three mentors and a new player, it is pretty damn obvious these three should let the new guy know what's coming. If it is two and two, the they could vote to have that player dismissed when the non-mentor initiates the kick, and or recommend it to them.

It can work.

[ServerCollaps]

I think SE should change the mentor icon to something horrendous, so that the special snowflakes using the mentor symbol for elitism won't be attracted to it.

that wouldnt save your friend from beeing kicked neither, if he wiped the raid probably several times :hmmm:

[Misutoraru]

The addition of "by a mentor" is very pointless. Your friend would've still been kicked if there was no more mentor system.

I'm not saying it's right to kick a new person. What I'm saying is that the mentor system isn't bad, bad players using the mentor system is bad.

I wouldnt say it is pointless
it clearly show how broken the mentor system we have
being a mentor is super easy, but being a mentor does not warrant the quality of mentor
I have seen mentor giving outdate information, I have seen mentor being impatient, I have seen mentor giving no explanation etc
to sum up, there are good mentors, I think the majorities are, but the bad apple are everywhere too, and we lack any proper system to remove the bad apple
which I think we urgently need a way to remove those bad apple mentor status

[LalafellDown]

You should report the other players that voted to kick, obviously they should get in trouble too.

[Violyre]

I wouldnt say it is pointless
it clearly show how broken the mentor system we have
being a mentor is super easy, but being a mentor does not warrant the quality of mentor
I have seen mentor giving outdate information, I have seen mentor being impatient, I have seen mentor giving no explanation etc
to sum up, there are good mentors, I think the majorities are, but the bad apple are everywhere too, and we lack any proper system to remove the bad apple
which I think we urgently need a way to remove those bad apple mentor status

The mentor system is like a gun. It doesn't do anything wrong by itself, the person who uses it in a terrible way is the one that did the wrong, but we're going to blame the gun anyways. Bad players use mentor status, we blame the system.

I agree that the current setup is flawed, and needs an overhaul. Just remember that the person still would've been kicked regardless of the existence of the system.

[Anyan]

But what happened exactly? Was there any proper communication going on?

[Masekase_Hurricane]

I think we are missing information, as I have seen plenty of people constantly die on wiping city of Mach, Dun Scaith and never receive a kick. Now was he placing the meteors in the wrong place multiple times? Did he cause any wipes and if so how many times did you wipe? Did he cause problems on the previous bosses?