Got kicked from The Aetherochemical Research Facility by mentor

[Masekase_Hurricane]

look up what gaslighting is.

And only just recently started using reddit. My g/f isn't the /kick type, she thinks it is rude and a poor way to communicate.

Well then if she can't kick abusive people then she needs to grow a thicker skin. So back to the same thing as before, if she is using reddit why can't she look up guides etc? Next you will be telling me she comments on the forum :s
Why would you take a load of crap and let someone ruin it for you and the other members of the party. Sorry never heard of the term gaslighting but if that's what you think then ok :S

expect it isn't hard to tell them apart.

mentor crown with blade =combat.



so people who don't communicate get a free pass but don't google a dungeon and deserve a /kick?

sorry but no.

You would think but I have been in a duty as a craft mentor I made a silly error and died then got various messages like "Your a mentor and you died lol"

To which I replied "unless you can turn the mobs into tables let's continue".

So if the mentor doesn't google a dungeon they deserve a kick but if the other players are lazy and don't it's fine? It would be silly to expect someone to google a dungeon whilst in a dungeon. Although I personally would pull up the bosses of the dungeon on my laptop whilst playing on PC and explain them. But like you said not everyone can do that as they don't have access to browser whilst playing.

guides are out of date. or did you not get that memo?

Guides are not out of date, it's just some mechanics may be skipped due to players ilvl etc. The majority of a guide is still relevant try places like Gamer Escape that are regularly updated. I would also avoid reddit if you can't handle other people who over state their opinion.

[TaranTatsuuchi]

Not to mention, pulling all to the door with a group without aoe, it is just putting unnecessary pressure on the healer and barring him to add to the dps because tank constantly hit by slow dying mobs.

I was under the impression that, by level cap, all jobs have respectable aoe...

[Callinon]

I was under the impression that, by level cap, all jobs have respectable aoe...

AoE yes.... respectable? ...... eh

Melee AoE, while extant, is still decidedly mediocre at level cap. Especially NIN. Sorry NIN.

[ZioSerpe]

I was under the impression that, by level cap, all jobs have respectable aoe...

Ninjas AoE is not respectable, and DRG AoE is barely ok if is for a short time, then you are out of TP and your invigorate is on CD

[RokkuEkkusu]

I'm sorry it happened to you. It is a very rare occasion, but good to see you got a great group in the end to clear ARF.

With that being said, the more I see players force the speed-run mentality on lesser-geared tanks, healers, and dps (especially first timers), the more I wish for dungeons like Hullbreaker Hard to be made with the huge walls and little amount of trash mobs with plenty of HP.

And I loathe Hullbreaker Hard because it's boring compared to most other level 60 dungeons (better than Alwaysreap, but it's not saying much).

[BigRed5392]

Well then if she can't kick abusive people then she needs to grow a thicker skin. So back to the same thing as before, if she is using reddit why can't she look up guides etc? Next you will be telling me she comments on the forum :s
Why would you take a load of crap and let someone ruin it for you and the other members of the party. Sorry never heard of the term gaslighting but if that's what you think then ok :S

She has Autism spectrum disorder and atm due to moving to a new state, is not currently medicated. She has a thick skin from being a long time mmo player and kicks people as a last resort. Thing is though it wouldn't have gone through as the other dps was with said toxic member remember you need a 2 vote to kick, most would vote no.
Also gaslighting:
gas·light
ˈɡaslīt/
verb
gerund or present participle: gaslighting
manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.

which is something i have been seeing with this community. The pointing fingers and calling people lazy for something arbitrary, and nonsensical is gas lighting.

You would think but I have been in a duty as a craft mentor I made a silly error and died then got various messages like "Your a mentor and you died lol"

To which I replied "unless you can turn the mobs into tables let's continue".

So if the mentor doesn't google a dungeon they deserve a kick but if the other players are lazy and don't it's fine? It would be silly to expect someone to google a dungeon whilst in a dungeon. Although I personally would pull up the bosses of the dungeon on my laptop whilst playing on PC and explain them. But like you said not everyone can do that as they don't have access to browser whilst playing.

never said you had to, and you could have explain that you are not a combat mentor. But a crafting one. Personally no one should be kicked from any leveling dungeon unless they are cruel.

Guides are not out of date, it's just some mechanics may be skipped due to players ilvl etc. The majority of a guide is still relevant try places like Gamer Escape that are regularly updated. I would also avoid reddit if you can't handle other people who over state their opinion.

I can handle people who state their opinion, I have the right to contest that opinion as well pointing out the falsehoods of that opinion.

And mmo guides go out of date quickly as they are made at content launch. People will find and expect faster ways to do content after launch of it, as with being over geared. Take this thread for example, the guy was booted for not speed running a dungeon. This is not in the guide, yet is to be not expected. Gamer escape guides go out of date pretty fast, and rarely seen any updated. I did look, saw 1 gamer escape article about potd with out an accurate loot list as some links were missing.

MMo work best if you communicate, there are tons of guides for ff14 that contradict each other. Mrhappy even makes jokes about this in a recent pod cast about how cutthroat the ff14 community got.

Take a look at the skip soar mentality, it only took 30 min for this to start. day 1 and people were expected to skip a mechanic. He went on to day that people kick you for arbitrary reason such as : seeing a myhappy guide, not seeing a mrhappy guide. among other things

the ff14 community is not jointed at all. Too many groups use different tactics, and expect everyone to know them right off the bat. Everyone learns differently, my g/f doesn't read/watch guides for a few reasons. And none of which are lazy. First off she as i stated, had access to them. She did try to use the ps3/ps4 broswer and they do not load up very well.

As for watching youtube guides, the way her brain works (as she told me) Is all she sees is clutter she can't tell what is going on in the video. She even watched 2 mtq videos and was left confused, more then anything. She learns best by doing the content first hand, as she is very quick to react, and strategist. Something she got from playing Legend pf zelda on the nes at 3 years old.


As she told me: ff11 players had no issue explaining fights so everyone was on the same page. And that was a grinder game she told me. They would do practice runs, to see the abilities and learn to deal with them before doing the fight for real. And these same players had real lives, families full time jobs. Heck my g/f said she only played ff11 2 hours a day for a year when she started. Never had an issue getting content done, she said.

ff14 to her is extremely anti social, no one ask questions or try to plan stuff out to be on the same page. they expect to follow some guide that you need to go out of your way to find, which may not even be the guide people follow.

Like i stated, asking questions, no matter your personal opinion on how "dumb" it is should NEVER be discouraged. It takes a lot to ask a question in this community, and most of the time you are ignored. (personal experience, not stating as fact). to me ask questions isn't laziness, it shows a willingness to learn. Ignoring the question, or making jerk/lame reply calling them lazy, in reality being lazy.

Even a simply reply of "i'm sorry, i don't know. If you go to website x, if you have access to pc/smartphone, you might find out. good luck. "

And ya you will get the troll on occasion telling you to kys or stfu.. but don't paint everyone with a wide brush, just because a person had no access or could understand a guide, or had trouble making out the semi vague tool tip. Doesn't make them lazy, just makes it more apparent we all are different, think differently, and learn differently.

Some people can be masters just from a guide or video, while some need 1 to 1 player help with step by step explanations, while others still learn best by diving head first and pressing buttons.

You can only control you, remember that. I know the same goes for me and my g/f, I'm in no way nor have been defending anyone. I've just been saying my own opinion based on experience, and seeing my g/f struggle because of rude people.


anyway like i said, this just my opinion. have a good day.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

Sorry long reply :S

She has Autism spectrum disorder and atm due to moving to a new state, is not currently medicated. She has a thick skin from being a long time mmo player and kicks people as a last resort. Thing is though it wouldn't have gone through as the other dps was with said toxic member remember you need a 2 vote to kick, most would vote no.

We are in a digital era text can be converted to voice and there is many other tools available to make this a little easier.

Also gaslighting:
gas·light
ˈɡaslīt/
verb
gerund or present participle: gaslighting
manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity.
which is something i have been seeing with this community. The pointing fingers and calling people lazy for something arbitrary, and nonsensical is gas lighting.

I had already looked it up just chose to put “lol” as if you really think that by helping someone with mechanics via macros is manipulating them then you really need help. Asking people to ask for information on mechanics prior to an instance is called being prepared and so is having information on hand to answer potential questions/provide strats.

And mmo guides go out of date quickly as they are made at content launch. People will find and expect faster ways to do content after launch of it, as with being over geared. Take this thread for example, the guy was booted for not speed running a dungeon. This is not in the guide, yet is to be not expected. Gamer escape guides go out of date pretty fast, and rarely seen any updated. I did look, saw 1 gamer escape article about potd with out an accurate loot list as some links were missing.

You are right most guides won’t say about speed running dungeons. Yet prior to 60 she would of seen this is the norm and expected from players. Players do not mind people who try, but pulling 3 mobs continuous through a dungeon is not trying. Gradually increasing size throughout the dungeon is trying, it also teaches the tank about taking high amounts of damage, using cooldowns at the best time, understanding the roles of healer and dps and what they can withstand.

the ff14 community is not jointed at all. Too many groups use different tactics, and expect everyone to know them right off the bat. Everyone learns differently, my g/f doesn't read/watch guides for a few reasons. And none of which are lazy. First off she as i stated, had access to them. She did try to use the ps3/ps4 broswer and they do not load up very well.
As for watching youtube guides, the way her brain works (as she told me) Is all she sees is clutter she can't tell what is going on in the video. She even watched 2 mtq videos and was left confused, more then anything. She learns best by doing the content first hand, as she is very quick to react, and strategist. Something she got from playing Legend pf zelda on the nes at 3 years old.

As I have pointed out in other replys/comments, I would not expect players to read a guide prior to their first time in a dungeon. Although I would expect them to look up any mechanics they do not understand later on. i.e. what did that red eye do or what was that circle with the inward pointing arrows. Not all guides are video guides. Yes I don’t look up any guides prior to a fight I run with friends and we explain mechanics/figure them out over discord.

Although now I have some understanding of the fight (yes I am a kinaesthetic type of learner) I will take that away and go look up any parts that I didn’t understand/ask friends/fc etc. I will again do this before we enter the fight not during. As I wouldn’t expect people to go over the same things the following day/week etc.

As she told me: ff11 players had no issue explaining fights so everyone was on the same page. And that was a grinder game she told me. They would do practice runs, to see the abilities and learn to deal with them before doing the fight for real. And these same players had real lives, families full time jobs. Heck my g/f said she only played ff11 2 hours a day for a year when she started. Never had an issue getting content done, she said.

Actually this is not true I too played FFXI and players were told to look up guides on Allakhzam, FFxiclopedia, FFXIAH and bluegartr.

ff14 to her is extremely anti social, no one ask questions or try to plan stuff out to be on the same page. they expect to follow some guide that you need to go out of your way to find, which may not even be the guide people follow.

I agree to an extent FFXIV is antisocial but it is also becoming a place where people want everyone else doing stuff for them. You say no one plans stuff out, yet when I mentioned having planned macros/guides on the fly you try to insult me.

Like i stated, asking questions, no matter your personal opinion on how "dumb" it is should NEVER be discouraged. It takes a lot to ask a question in this community, and most of the time you are ignored. (personal experience, not stating as fact). to me ask questions isn't laziness, it shows a willingness to learn. Ignoring the question, or making jerk/lame reply calling them lazy, in reality being lazy.

You are correct questions should not be discouraged but there is a time and place. I.e where do I get my job crystal from in the middle of Sastasha (hard). This type of question should not be asked in the middle of a 50 dungeon yet I have seen it.

Even a simply reply of "i'm sorry, i don't know. If you go to website x, if you have access to pc/smartphone, you might find out. good luck. "
And ya you will get the troll on occasion telling you to kys or stfu.. but don't paint everyone with a wide brush, just because a person had no access or could understand a guide, or had trouble making out the semi vague tool tip. Doesn't make them lazy, just makes it more apparent we all are different, think differently, and learn differently.

If this person can’t read a written guide, tooltip, a more explained version of a tooltip on a website. Then what’s the point in me explaining the dungeon when it would be ignored. My explanation would also be weaker as I am cutting it down to very brief instructions to not hold up the rest of the group.
Again this is for after your first attempt in a dungeon. Hell if I got kicked from a dungeon I would ask a friend to run with me and point out what I am doing wrong, not bury my head in the sand.

Also you keep saying they have no access to websites, but so far we have found out they can access reddit, forum and attempted to watch visual guides.

Some people can be masters just from a guide or video, while some need 1 to 1 player help with step by step explanations, while others still learn best by diving head first and pressing buttons.
You can only control you, remember that. I know the same goes for me and my g/f, I'm in no way nor have been defending anyone. I've just been saying my own opinion based on experience, and seeing my g/f struggle because of rude people.

you can't help someone who wont help themselves

[BigRed5392]

Sorry long reply :S

We are in a digital era text can be converted to voice and there is many other tools available to make this a little easier.



I had already looked it up just chose to put “lol” as if you really think that by helping someone with mechanics via macros is manipulating them then you really need help. Asking people to ask for information on mechanics prior to an instance is called being prepared and so is having information on hand to answer potential questions/provide strats.



You are right most guides won’t say about speed running dungeons. Yet prior to 60 she would of seen this is the norm and expected from players. Players do not mind people who try, but pulling 3 mobs continuous through a dungeon is not trying. Gradually increasing size throughout the dungeon is trying, it also teaches the tank about taking high amounts of damage, using cooldowns at the best time, understanding the roles of healer and dps and what they can withstand.



As I have pointed out in other replys/comments, I would not expect players to read a guide prior to their first time in a dungeon. Although I would expect them to look up any mechanics they do not understand later on. i.e. what did that red eye do or what was that circle with the inward pointing arrows. Not all guides are video guides. Yes I don’t look up any guides prior to a fight I run with friends and we explain mechanics/figure them out over discord.

Although now I have some understanding of the fight (yes I am a kinaesthetic type of learner) I will take that away and go look up any parts that I didn’t understand/ask friends/fc etc. I will again do this before we enter the fight not during. As I wouldn’t expect people to go over the same things the following day/week etc.



Actually this is not true I too played FFXI and players were told to look up guides on Allakhzam, FFxiclopedia, FFXIAH and bluegartr.



I agree to an extent FFXIV is antisocial but it is also becoming a place where people want everyone else doing stuff for them. You say no one plans stuff out, yet when I mentioned having planned macros/guides on the fly you try to insult me.



You are correct questions should not be discouraged but there is a time and place. I.e where do I get my job crystal from in the middle of Sastasha (hard). This type of question should not be asked in the middle of a 50 dungeon yet I have seen it.



If this person can’t read a written guide, tooltip, a more explained version of a tooltip on a website. Then what’s the point in me explaining the dungeon when it would be ignored. My explanation would also be weaker as I am cutting it down to very brief instructions to not hold up the rest of the group.
Again this is for after your first attempt in a dungeon. Hell if I got kicked from a dungeon I would ask a friend to run with me and point out what I am doing wrong, not bury my head in the sand.

Also you keep saying they have no access to websites, but so far we have found out they can access reddit, forum and attempted to watch visual guides.

hey dude, no question no mater your personal hang up or opinion should be discouraged. ever.

the ff11 bit, my gf stated her server wasn't like that till abyssea.. she quit then. All content she was in, the group leader would explain the "what do" so everyone was on the same page, which should be well a thing, as communication should be encouraged.

I highly suggest you really look into gaslight as this hole post is very much that. calling people lazy for arbitrary things is the basic concept of what gaslighting is.

You put to question people mental state, and i saw this happen with my g/f. Ever since she started tanking a few runs question her skill level as people would treat her like crap. One person back in 2.3 era actually insulted her personally for being new tank to amdapor keep while working on her relic. This encounter made her feel like she was the worst tank ever. She was on the ps3 at this time.


I also never insulted you over macros. those are a good idea. I'm just pointing out the pointless arbitrary rules you, and people like you make up on the fly, and expect people to read your mind and know the rules.

Not everyone speed runs dungeons. Not everyone is geared to speed run dungeons right out the gate.


anyway i hope you read this in really and not just reply with broken record remarks. feel free to ask questions instead of assuming. as you are assuming a lot, and not reading/listening at all.


ps look up what or ask about ASD is before commenting, you said something kinda ignorant. as text to voice programs do nothing for her. In fact her issues are high anxiety, temprate sensitivities, low hand eye coordination, and acute audio sensory sensitivity (some sound volumes and frequency cause her pain) And a low physical pain tolerance which makes the sound thing much harder on her.


I really wish people like you would wake up to reality and realize people from all walks of life play this. And that with every group comes new made up rules, that contradict past groups.

some want speed runs, some don't.

some want healers to dps, some don't.

some want to follow x guide, while some follow z guide.

unless you communicate, no one will know which made up rules or strat to follow.

in fact my g/f tried stance dancing as a tank in the aery, as enmity wasn't an issue. The healer at the end told her it was bad to do that because of mp cost of grit.

Like i said mrhappy explains this better in a podcast from a few weeks ago, suggest looking into it, if you want/have the time.


i gotta ask though, what do you suggest people do if they work 2 jobs 4-7 days a week with no day off, from both and have maybe an hr or 2 in-between jobs to play?
And can't get online during said work hours? Does their time not matter? Sorry but for some that little time they have, they want to spend on the game. Not on the internet about the game.

And no she (my gf) doesn't access these forums. And again only recently started to get on reddit, and youtube. Only to be severally confused by contradictions, and clutter mess of youtube videos. (her words not mine) from 2.0-3.3 she was on the ps3. and had no access to the internet outside the crappy browser on ps3 which sucked.