4.0 Scholar predictions

[Connor]

Wait what?

1) I've said several times that I'm well aware this isn't going to happen. Like I said, it was a crazy idea that popped into my head so I figured 'hey, what if...'

2) I never meant that it was something so disgustingly overpowered that it removes mechanics from the game entirely. What I meant was that, with a critical Adloquium that has been spread to the entire party, some mechanics can be made easier to deal with than with an AST/WHM setup. And obviously it's fine that Scholar has something that makes it desirable. I'm not saying they should remove Critical Adloquium or Deployment Tactics, just that the two put together is potentially a bit much. This is all just throwing out ideas that came into my head.

3) I did mention that they have 'almost' infinite MP, not that it's impossible for them to run out. I am aware that this also somewhat to other healers as well (Mainly AST)

4) Yes, Cleric Stance doesn't stop Regens.
But does Aspected Benefic produce more regens at no MP cost? Can it raise the entire party's magic defense?. Can it Esuna the entire party or raise their attack speed?. I never intended to insinuate that Astrologian / White Mage can't DPS, what I meant is that Scholars can DPS more freely than a White Mage / Astrologian because Embrace / Whispering Dawn don't require the resources that things like Regen do.

In regards to your comments regarding Scholar MP, this is what I found:

At 14393 MP, Energy Drain restores 884 MP. Broil costs 530.

Now, let's account for all of a Scholar's DoTs.
Bio II, Miasma, Bio, Aero and Shadowflare cost a cumulative 2365 MP.
Aetherflow (again, at 14393 MP) restores 2878 MP.

In the 18 seconds between applying and reapplying Bio, with this MP value, you'll have regained gained roughly 1772 MP purely from natural MP regen alone (Assuming MP Regen ticks are every 3 seconds like most other 'ticks'). This isn't even accounting for the use of Energy Drain, which as far as I'm aware will often be used to maximize dps. That's enough to at least put up Bio II / Miasma / Bio, with 447 MP for Aero / Physick / whatever. Without even using Energy Drain or accounting for things like "Boss Jumps".

Using only Broil and not a single Energy Drain, with a GCD of 2.33 and the same MP value I mentioned before, on a Striking Dummy it takes around under 2 minutes (1 minute 53 seconds approx.) to actually get your MP so low that you can't cast anymore, and even then natural MP ticks will let you continue to do so pretty quickly. Not to mention that most content has things like phase shifts where you can't attack the enemy, letting you restore even more MP naturally without having it going down from use.

Unless you're spamming either spamming Succor / Adloquium needlessly, have an impossibly low GCD, or for some reason beyond mortal comprehension you are the main healer as a Scholar, I'm confused as to how a Scholar would run out of MP using just their DPS. Obviously this changes when they need to spam Resurrection, but you shouldn't ever need to use it anyway (because the game has no unavoidable mechanics that will always outright kill the player).

But I dunno, maybe I really don't know what I'm talking about, but this is what I've found. I'm not going to act like I'm perfect or that I have absolute knowledge of every single formula in regards to Scholar MP usage in every given situation. Maybe there's someone out there who's worked out every single integer down to every individual point of MP, but it's not me.

One last thing, I've already said in a previous post that the point was never to nerf Scholar. Anything that would be removed would be compensated for in another way. It was an attempt at throwing out ideas to close the slight gap between the three healers.

[Sebazy]

I'm predicting two changes that I can see happening in 4.0 to tone Scholar down a bit.

A nerf by any other name is still a nerf, oh and those changes you listed are most definitely nerfs.

I honestly don't know where you're getting that Scholars spamming Broil are going to run out of MP.

I'm going by what I see first hand with my co healer, he manages 40+ broil casts in a 4 minute A9S to give you a reference point. He will run oom in that same 4 minute A9S if I let him raise, he will also run oom in the final phases of A12S if I let him raise. Given his high worldwide rankings, I'm inclined to believe that he is a pretty good benchmark to go by, feel free to look us up <3

But just incase that's not enough for you, a simple in game demonstration you can try yourself:

Run yourself completely oom on a dummy, spam gravity, adlo or whatever. As soon as you hit oom, hit a 30 second timer on your phone, use your MP regeneration and start casting, for simplicities sake I just spammed cure 1 on both jobs to keep things even.

On my AST with 16k MP, after 30 seconds I'm at 7k MP, if I throw an ewer on myself and extend that as well, I'm at 12k, enhanced ewer? Unrealistic I know but I'm back full on mp within 20 seconds.

On my SCH with 14k MP after 30 seconds I'm at 4k MP with 3 drains, 7k MP with 6 drains. (Fun side note, my co-SCH actually runs with like 12.5k MP which really doesn't help things, that min maxing tho)

TLDR, SCH MP regen is slightly behind AST in the long term, WHMs are the odd ones out here.

4.0 will inherently correct this to some degree, as we will have significantly inflated MP costs vs a comparatively much smaller MP pool at the new level cap.

Obviously this changes when they need to spam Resurrection, but you shouldn't ever need to use it anyway

We can all dream eh? =(

[Connor]

A nerf by any other name is still a nerf, oh and those changes you listed are most definitely nerfs.

This doesn't mean that any of their DPS abilities needs to be changed or nerfed

And of course, naturally the Scholar would be given something to compensate for losing the ability to spread a Critical Adloquium

Like I've said, if these ridiculous changes I've suggested were to be implemented, Scholars would be given something to compensate. It's a redistribution of their power, rather than having it all concentrated in a single area (e.g shields, or dps, or direct healing, etc).

TLDR, SCH MP regen is slightly behind AST in the long term, WHMs are the odd ones out here.

I think - for all three healers - in 4.0 we're going to see more focus on managing MP, if only because it's almost redundant in current content where there's little if any need to actually manage resources.

On my SCH with 14k MP after 30 seconds I'm at 4k MP with 3 drains, 7k MP with 6 drains. (Fun side note, my co-SCH actually runs with like 12.5k MP which really doesn't help things, that min maxing tho)

Of course you're going to have trouble with MP if you begin at 0, but unless there's something I've missed no healer should ever hit 0 MP in a fight unless things are going very wrong. My point wasn't that Scholar can easily go from 0 - 100 MP quickly; it was that, given an at least semi-ideal situation, and starting at 100%, if they're following their DPS rotation and using Energy Drain when appropriate they then won't generally run out of MP.

4.0 will inherently correct this to some degree, as we will have significantly inflated MP costs vs a comparatively much smaller MP pool at the new level cap.

You're right that 4.0 and rising MP pools will likely cause this to balance itself out. It's also worth noting that in a recent interview they said that they have changes planned for Piety in 4.0 (though what they'll be we don't know, something to keep in mind though)

We can all dream eh? =(

Of course things will change depending on the party; I was assuming a semi-ideal situation in my original post where raise isn't needed, etc.


Lastly, like I wrote in my disclaimer, these propositions aren't representative of any ideas or opinions but my own. They're ideas that popped into my head that I thought could make for an interesting discussion. Disagreeing with it and stating why is perfectly fine. But what I don't appreciate are statements like:

either you don't know what you are on about or you aren't DPSing hard enough

I haven't claimed to be a complete 'expert' Scholar; like I've been saying, these suggestions were purely for sake of discussion. They're ideas I came up with based on my personal opinion, experiences and interpretations of what I've seen. I'm not acting as if anything I've written is part of some secret optimal Scholar playstyle, nor am I acting like I think the developers should take my own suggestions seriously.
Statements like this do nothing but detract from the discussion and serve only to make your post seem aggressive and unkind. People (myself included, because we're all human) just get defensive and aggressive in turn. I've also edited my own recent post because I'll openly admit I was guilty of doing the same.

[Rawrz]

Just a little side note. Energy Drains are like MP in the bank. Aetherflow stacks are vouchers for MP. Any healing spell that is not energy drain, literally lights that voucher on fire. You "saved" mp, but your budget thought those Energy Drains where going to get deposited. Our job is to heal, but our role in the party is to efficiently heal and DPS at all times. To let someone die, goes against us and to withhold healing for MP so you can DPS does as well.

When factoring mp costs and dps, you also have to factor in the insane healing costs, low MP build and low base mp [12-13.5k] and the frequency of healing ogcds vs energy drain.

[Rubiss]

Because that is exactly the problem. Adloquium + fairy are the reason nocturnal AST is rendered useless. Crit Adloquium is too powerful, it blows aspected benefic out of the water. On top of that when in nocturnal sect not only is your main shield worse than sch's, but you don't have regens or a fairy to cover healing while you dps like whm or sch. Nocturnal AST isn't going to be used unless it can be put on par with adloquium and cover healing. And while I think healing is something that needs to be covered on ast's end, the simplest solution for shielding would be to remove the crit effect from Aldo and just buff Aldo's overall performance.

If you do basic math, you'll find that unless a Scholar's Adloquium is critting every 3rd shield, Aspected Benefic actually mitigates more damage.

[ToasterMan]

In my opinion I think a step in the right direction would be to make so that when a scholar switches into cleric stance, make the INT and MND shift effect the fairy as well. I don't agree with taking away their ability to DPS completely.

[Feyona]

In my opinion I think a step in the right direction would be to make so that when a scholar switches into cleric stance, make the INT and MND shift effect the fairy as well. I don't agree with taking away their ability to DPS completely.

That would actually make sch less viable for dps OH but would still do it I guess just maybe wouldnt be able to stay in cleric as long maybe

[Ariane]

In my opinion I think a step in the right direction would be to make so that when a scholar switches into cleric stance, make the INT and MND shift effect the fairy as well. I don't agree with taking away their ability to DPS completely.

That would make WHM and diurnal AST far better at DPS because HoTs aren't effect by switching to cleric stance. And it doesn't really help the noct AST either. You'll still default to diurnal, and only use noct if people will die without the barriers.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

That would actually make sch less viable for dps OH but would still do it I guess just maybe wouldnt be able to stay in cleric as long maybe

You're not supposed to be camping in cleric anyway. WHM and AST both need to leave cleric just to apply regens and maybe even hardcast a heal.
SCH is the odd one out, it's not normal to have the power to completely ignore healing duties for 80% of content.

It doesn't have to completely lose it's power while in Cleric, but it should probably heal for the half the potency it normally would. That way you'll still have heals going, but they won't be so strong you can neglect leaving Cleric Stance.

[Rawrz]

You're not supposed to be camping in cleric anyway. WHM and AST both need to leave cleric just to apply regens and maybe even hardcast a heal.
SCH is the odd one out, it's not normal to have the power to completely ignore healing duties for 80% of content.

It doesn't have to completely lose it's power while in Cleric, but it should probably heal for the half the potency it normally would. That way you'll still have heals going, but they won't be so strong you can neglect leaving Cleric Stance.

Scholars break cleric stance allottt, especially coordinated healing compositions. We just step out for an ogcd and come right back in. We don't necessarily heal the target completely, we just buy Lilly/regens/co-healer time to finish their last cast. On top of ogcd healing as a result of constantly watching for those moments when your cohealer is busy/unscripted damage occurred you have mitigation and micro management.

Embrace, choosing when to fey illu, fey cov, Whispering Dawn, virus, Eye for an Eye and the rare sacred soil.

During moments of Down time you are adloing/succoring for a free dps gain moments later.

Scholar is an efficient playstyle for sure, but it's not lazy.