Stop Giving the "Need" Command for Drop Gear in Dungeons to Higher Geared Players!

[Cordie]

It allows specific targetting of loot for players that do need it for specific purposes.

It allows the exact same targeting of loot to players that need it for any/all reasons. This is exactly what “non-specific” is.

Not sure if you agree here, but a difference of 1-5% chance is pretty insignificant.

Not when the maximum is 20%. A 4% difference makes for 20% of that range. I wouldn’t call it “insignificant”.

You have it backwards. …

My suggestion benefits people who need gear for any reason, really.
You can still target specific gear if everyone can roll “need” on it. You can target all gear, as a matter of fact. It’s a win-win.



Update:
So it's perfectly fine to ask other people to greed/pass in the current scheme, but it's not in the one I propose?

If you think your chances of geting some piece are too low, then I guess the "Poor you. Run the dungeon again." mentality expressed by some here fits your case very well. (Ask ppl who farm for ponies/chickens about it).

I only have 1 suggestion, bardaboo, and I am asked to explain over and over that it is fair to everyone.

[bardaboo]

You can ask. But under your idea you are at the mercy of three people (or seven) not just one person.

[Altena]

It allows the exact same targeting of loot to players that need it for any/all reasons. This is exactly what “non-specific” is.

How can you even remotely claim that "loot targetting" and "non specific" is the same thing? Uh what?
Targetting means that you're aiming for a particular thing. That tank body. Those healer pants. Those BRD gloves.
Non-specific means you're not targetting anything specific at all.

When you're throwing darts at a target.. Are you just throwing darts at the wall? Or are you aiming for the bullseye?
Non-specific is just throwing darts at the wall and hoping it will land. You even hit things you don't want to - like the dude standing next to the dart board.
Targetted lotting is like aiming for the actual thing you want - the bullseye.

Or in blatent terms.. Non-specific is "everything", targetted is "specific".

They are literally polar opposites........

Not when the maximum is 20%. A 4% difference makes for 20% of that range. I wouldn’t call it “insignificant”.

However you aren't taking into account that "everyone being able to NEED on everything" drops your 20% down to 5%.... Like how is that not getting through your head?
If you play tank, you have that full 20% chance of obtaining that Fending choker. It's not shared.
By your system, you suddenly drop that 20% (or whatever) chance of obtaining that Fending choker down to 5%.

My suggestion benefits people who need gear for any reason, really.
You can still target specific gear if everyone can roll “need” on it. You can target all gear, as a matter of fact. It’s a win-win.

BUT IT DOESN'T!

It only benefits one audience. Those that want gear for a class that they aren't playing.

It is NOT a win-win.

That BRD that ran off with your Fending Choker that you really wanted, actually wanted an Aiming Choker that you were able to lot on.
You end up with a piece of accessory that you don't care about and toss it in for seals, and they do the same to your precious Fending choker.

You both get seals, sure - however you both wanted loot for gear. Neither got it.

[BigRed5392]

If this was to pass, people would milk the system by wearing lower ilvl gear. the system we have works fine, just go as the job you need it for.

No need to make it any more complex, my g/f played ff11 for years and she stated there was no "need/greed" system. it was loot master or free for all. That screwed over a lot of people in the end more so with the occasional troll.

LS would use the dpk (earn points then use points to bid on things to lot) the way they handled the loot system was in level up groups, no rolling on anything with out asking. but again you get the occasional troll would.


this system we have is much better. the item goes to the person as the current job/role. If you want that, be the job/role. Ask as well,

[Cordie]

…
Non-specific means you're not targetting anything specific at all.
…

You may as well be – it’s not excluded.
“Everything” includes “specific”.

By your system, you suddenly drop that 20% (or whatever) chance of obtaining that Fending choker down to 5%.

(Updated my previous post for that)

It only benefits one audience. Those that want gear for a class that they aren't playing. …

My suggestion benefits (i) those that want gear for a class they aren’t playing to the same extent it benefits
(ii) those who want gear for the class they are playing,
(iii) those who want gear for glamours for a class they aren’t playing,
(iv) those who want gear for glamours for the class they are playing,
(v) those who want gear for desynths,
(vi) those who want the gear for seals.
It is exactly the same for everyone.

If you don’t want a piece pass on it. If you want a specific piece communicate this to your party (same thing as now).

You can ask. But under your idea you are at the mercy of three people (or seven) not just one person.

I see no problem with that. It's the same as when a piece doesn't correspond to anyone's class/job in the current system.

[Bloody]

It's not dressing-up the OP's request. It's a suggestion satisfying both sides.
If you were to roll Greed on everything you can't Need you have a priori given up on the thought of all gear being equally Needable. There's no comparison for you there.

And it is skewed.

No, it is nigh identical to the OP: 100% equal opportunity when rolling on gear, irrespective of the role/class you are playing. The only thing you've changed is leaving the current two-tier system of priority in place for those who "don't want something as bad as others." People who disagree with the OP think that the current system is fine and giving class/roles priority on gear designed for their use is a legitimate allocation of potential rewards. You are arguing to remove that reward. That's clearly not "satisfying both parties," that's redressing the OP with slight variation.

Skewed implies heavily imbalanced. 2% is not even close.

Hell, if we want to use your math for probability of acquiring gear, under your suggestion, you would reduce all party members down to a 3% chance of acquiring the gear they want for left side in light party, and 1.6% in full party. Don't believe me? Take that 14.2% chance of a drop occurring, multiply by 0.25 or 0.125 based on party size, and you have the odds of getting your piece. Each party member may have a 25% or 12.5% chance on each piece that drops, but for specific drops it plummets. Bouncing between specific and general applications is less than honest if you want your argument to hold weight.

[Altena]

You may as well be – it’s not excluded.
“Everything” includes “specific”.

Everything is not specific. They are polar opposites. Lol.

You are going around in circles and your "points" are rebuttled with the same arguments by numerous people that you are unable to return.
However just because I am bored, I will repeat myself, and the many others who have said this...

(Updated my previous post for that)

And your point is daft as hell so I didn't even bother to respond to it.

My suggestion benefits
(i) those that want gear for a class they aren’t playing to the same extent it benefits

If they want gear for a specific class, they have the option of:-
1. choosing to play said class in that dungeon and getting priority.
2. asking politely in the dungeon if people are willing to give them specific pieces. If not, then they should have chosen option 1.

(ii) those who want gear for the class they are playing,

It is a DISADVANTAGE to those who want gear for the class they are playing.
How does a decrease to 25% chance of getting that piece of gear (if it dropped) from 100% (or 50% on the off chance it's shared) BENEFIT these players?
Reduced chance of getting a piece of gear is not a benefit... I think you have your definitions mixed around..

(iii) those who want gear for glamours for a class they aren’t playing,
(iv) those who want gear for glamours for the class they are playing,

Those that want gear for glamour have the option of playing that dungeon as the class they want glamour for, and acquire loot priority.
Again, you are removing that option for people to choose a class based on potential drops.

Same story with gear.

(v) those who want gear for desynths,

Desynths can also be targetted by choosing a class that is associated with the crafting class.
eg. Play Tank if you want to level ARM desynth.

Do this, and you will get a bucket load more ARM desynth than you would if everything was free for all.
The ONLY potential desynth class that "possibly" benefits from a free-for-all lotting system is GSM.
Even still, they can NEED lot on their entire right side for the class they are playing and be gaurenteed those pieces.

(vi) those who want the gear for seals.

Again, the only potential case where it is a benefit for "free for all" lotting rules. In which case, you can already priority lot on the stuff that is on the class you're on as well... So you're not at a disadvantage to the others.

Any piece of gear will suffice for seals, which is the only instance where your "non-specific" argument applies. 1 out of 6 points? Not looking too crash hot.

It is exactly the same for everyone.

Yes. Everyone gets rubbish sub-5% drop rates on stuff they specifically NEED and have no way to improve that chance, over and above asking people in the party to pass in good faith.
I would rather stick to my 15-20% rate, and choose a class specific to the gear I need. Not sure about you..

If you don’t want a piece pass on it. If you want a specific piece communicate this to your party (same thing as now).

And you expect people to just pass in good faith? Sorry but I don't trust the community on this one, and it amazes me that you would.

[Kewitt]

Also this doesn't work for leveling because I may enter as a 60 Warrior but have a 43 DRK. Which needs the Tank gear at some point.

[Masekase_Hurricane]

If you don’t want a piece pass on it. If you want a specific piece communicate this to your party (same thing as now).

if it aint broke dont fix it

The last thing this game needs is more options to avoid communication.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

I see no problem with that. It's the same as when a piece doesn't correspond to anyone's class/job in the current system.

You do realize this statement completely contradicts your insistence everyone benefits from your purposed changes, yes? If new players are at the mercy of their party to acquire dungeon drops, the entire point of the system breaks. The only reason dungeons even drop gear is so newer players can upgrade without depending on Tomestones. The rest of us typically won't care since we'll be using Shire or Alexander pieces. Your system only benefits greed rolls. Say a friend of mine comes back and she needs to level her healing gear. By going on White Mage, she is guaranteed any healer pieces. With your system she only has a 1/4 chance unless the party happens to be nice when/if she asks or she runs with friends. That's not a good system.