Stop Giving the "Need" Command for Drop Gear in Dungeons to Higher Geared Players!

[bardaboo]

Dude.... he's saying your idea is stupid. Pretty sure his mind is made up.

[Vidu]

No, I mean your 1st statement:



And the 2nd statement:



Make up your mind.

So... you're telling me you wont be looking for a specific item for stat-progression? Like how I made up my mind and went into Dun Scaith on my tank because I wanted the tank-legs?

But you are, ofc, very welcome to just nitpick on that and ignore the whole rest of my statment in which I pointed out that introducing "nreed" wouldnt benefit anyone.

[Cordie]

Dude.... he's saying your idea is stupid. Pretty sure his mind is made up.

If the idea is:
(i) based on your feedback (see posts #182, #189, #190 and quote links - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...yers%21/page19)
AND
(ii) is stupid
then I have no problem with that.

So... you're telling me you wont be looking for a specific item for stat-progression? Like how I made up my mind and went into Dun Scaith on my tank because I wanted the tank-legs?

Not when you claim by yourself (besides others here - bardaboo is a fine example) that stat progression is a non-issue.

[Vidu]

Not when you claim by yourself (besides others here - bardaboo is a fine example) that stat progression is a non-issue.

*sigh*
I didnt meant to say its a non-issue, I meant to say: its not the only issue... besides you might also want to roll on class-specific-gear for glamour-reasons, so right now you go in with the class you want the piece for so you can roll need on it, should it drop. With the current system you're going to roll against ONE other person if you're unlucky (and not in a 24-man-raid), with YOUR idea you would be rolling against THREE people no matter what.
Wether we keep the current system or change it to need-only, RNG will always be involved - except that the current system allows you to secure items should they drop and not be on the complete mercy of the dice. So I really dont see the benefit of your idea - here, mind made up enough for you?

[Naunet]

So wait, am I the only person who only needs if it's an item I haven't gotten yet (and will usually still pass if I know someone needs it for stats)? If I'm planning to desynth or turn in I'll usually greed instead, unless it's a material or something that everyone can need on.

That's what I do. If I don't need the gear to wear, I greed on it. It's the etiquette I learned from every other MMO I've played and I will stick to it. I don't feel that my want for seals from a piece of healer gear (my main is a healer, so that's what I'm usually doing in dungeons) is any more important than what the rest of the party would likely do with it.

[Saito_S]

The current system is fair for everyone. If you want a specific piece of gear, then you should run as that class. It doesn't matter WHY you want it. Everyone has the opportunity to do this. If you're not on the right class, you can ask for the party to pass it, and many people will if asked nicely. Myself, I usually would. But no one is obligated to, of course. If I'm running a dungeon because there's a piece I REALLY want, I've been hunting it for ages, but it's purely for glamour, then yeah, I'm going to roll Need if I'm on the right class. Case in point: if I ever see the pieces of the Valerian Rogue's set that I don't have drop when I'm on my NIN, I'm absolutely rolling need on it because I really like that set but have had terrible luck seeing it drop.

If it were just "greed for everyone", or "nreed" or whatever you want to call it, then it would be harder for people to gear-up. Wasn't that one of the underlying concerns prompting people in this thread to say "you shouldn't roll 'need' if you only want it for seals, desynth, or glamour, because someone else might be trying to gear up!"? Well, if you made everything greed-only, all the time, it'd be HARDER for people to gear-up. Because the NIN in the group, despite being the only NIN, would still have to roll against 3, 8, or 23 other people for every piece of NIN gear that drops. So if you actually need the gear for a stat upgrade, then your system idea would make it that much harder to get it.

[Reinha]

If it were just "greed for everyone", or "nreed" or whatever you want to call it, then it would be harder for people to gear-up. Wasn't that one of the underlying concerns prompting people in this thread to say "you shouldn't roll 'need' if you only want it for seals, desynth, or glamour, because someone else might be trying to gear up!"? Well, if you made everything greed-only, all the time, it'd be HARDER for people to gear-up. Because the NIN in the group, despite being the only NIN, would still have to roll against 3, 8, or 23 other people for every piece of NIN gear that drops. So if you actually need the gear for a stat upgrade, then your system idea would make it that much harder to get it.

You are correct, but... the "everyone can need" system was not a serious suggestion, I believe. It was suggested to demonstrate how abusing role-based priority rolls (Need) for purposes that aren't role restricted (seals, desynth, gil) makes it more difficult for people to gear up with role restricted loot. The original issue was that people Need-rolling things they are not going to bind/use are making it more difficult for people to gear up. People responded that trading the gear away is an equal "need" to using it and that ilevel upgrades don't even matter, so in response it was questioned why we can't just roll Need on everything then.

In the end it seems people are simultaneously defending their Need rolls for seals and saying that gearing a role happens by going in as that role. Those two stances conflict. Either an item should go to the person who is going to equip it, or it should go to anyone who can get their hands on it for whatever purpose. It's a binary choice. If a 265 SMN is mechanically and socially able to roll Need on a 185 dungeon piece for seals over a 175 BLM, then clearly playing as the role you would equip the gear on is not a solution. In other words, if that SMN told his BLM buddy beforehand to just run the dungeon as BLM for upgrades and then proceeds to Need roll himself... well his actions kind of contradict his advice.

The playerbase is already collectively using a system where anyone will use the highest priority roll on anything they can get their hands on. In order to deviate from this one has to ask other players if they would kindly allow gear upgrades, which defeats the purpose of having the Need button and doesn't even always work. This is what the OP is criticizing. In some other games people collectively allow gear upgrades through the Need Before Greed system without the need to ask, and it can be a shock to see how in this community the default position is not caring about other people's gear progression even though caring about it would likely benefit oneself too at some point.

This debate is really all about the two stances about who should (or shouldn't) be able to have priority in rolling based on the reason to roll, and I don't think an agreement will be reached. Anyway, that's my take on this topic. Carry on!

[bardaboo]

Let's assume we are talking about the highest possible gc trade in gear that isn't locked out.
i245 dungeon drops.
there are 5 better ways to gear up
alex 9-12 normal. 250
crafted. 250
Dunscathe. 260/270 accessories
shire. 260/270
Alex savage 270.
Now please explain how me rolling need on a 245 dungeon drop so i can get gc seals is hindering you.

[bardaboo]

If the idea is:
(i) based on your feedback (see posts #182, #189, #190 and quote links - http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...yers%21/page19)
AND
(ii) is stupid
then I have no problem with that.




Not when you claim by yourself (besides others here - bardaboo is a fine example) that stat progression is a non-issue.

i don't think you grasp the sarcasm when suggested they remove the need function

[ZioSerpe]

Daddy needs his seals to buy moonstones to buy crystal sands to make his weapon...
...that is awfully convoluted.

Look, just ask speak up when a loot drops that you want for some reason of upgrade,in low level dungeons they give very little so people might pass it up. If it's for lvl 60 stuff... ain't gonna happen.