A word to lvl 60 crafters who don't quite understand crafting yet

[MN_14]

Perhaps you may want to slowly learn what each button does first, formulate some combos, and eventually develop your own rotation. Also, please learn how to utilize the Good and Excellent conditions. Learn how to bait them as well. These are all the things that are actually FUN at end-game crafting. What's the point of being a Summoner, if you can just press a single button and get the job done? Similarly, the fun of crafting doesn't come from copying macros. It comes from understanding everything

Yep, crafting is most fun when you understand all of the underlying mechanics and can develop effective strategies. It isn't simply about learning your abilities either. The idea is to design your synthesis on the fly, not to follow pre-designed rotations, which are inherently limited.

Macros obviously won't teach you anything but mechanically following a rotation and using a strategy as rudimentary as swapping HTs for BT or PT won't get you far either as far as crafting mastery is concerned. Rotations with BT swaps were popular in 2.2 but they were extremely ineffective when the newer ARR endgame crafts were introduced in 2.3-2.5. It’s where the majority of crafters failed in ARR endgame crafts (like the master 2 tokens or even 4* crafts or artisan’s offhands). This strategy is similar to mastering battle rotations on a striking dummy and refusing to learn specific raid/trial mechanics. You’re ignoring RNG mechanics and calculations. It only works now in HW because the crafting balance has been designed to be very casual friendly in terms of difficulty.

In a RNG based system, you analyze probabilities when coming up with your design (before and during the craft as you're designing as you go) and some of the common techniques I’ve heard quoted don’t really make sense. When working on your design, here are a few questions you should be asking.

During the Maker’s Mark phase, one common practice is to avoid the use of tricks of the trade if SH is up (for pbp). Does this make sense statistically? Is it worth sacrificing 20 CP just so that your 90% success rate of landing FS is increased to 100? Even if you have one extra FS miss, is it detrimental?

Is there an overuse of CS2 for most posted rotations? RNG free/minimal RNG progress comes at a price....

Is swapping HT for PT efficient (I think so if you have the CP to spare)? Is swapping HT for BT efficient (using a swapping strategy, the majority of your swaps will be HT for BT)?

These are only a few considerations out of a number of them. HW crafts are more interesting than ARR but only if you look into mastering RNG mechanics. Difficulty is easy though as you’ll breeze through even 4* final products from all NQ materials.

[Mithrahn]

Long and short of it... there's going to be people at varying levels of interest and commitment. From the 'never used a skill outside a macro to save their life' all the way to 'knows every nuance for even the unused cross-class and can craft the hardest recipes with no macros and their eyes closed'. And everything in between.

Personally, I'm at the lower end. I do it for repairs and making stuff here and there but I just don't like FFXIV's crafting system, IMO it's one of the worse ones out there. So macros are nice. I'll look into the other guides if I need to but I would probably just avoid anything that needs that. To each their own...

Wait... what? One of the worst ones? You mean you prefer just pressing a button to queue-craft a whole batch of stuff like in other MMOs such as *cough*WoW*cough*?
Crafters are an actual class/job in this game. Aka like all those combat classes you're playing. Does that means you don't like the combat either?

(Personally I don't like the combat, and only reason I'm still playing this game is the crafting... and my friends, to a certain extent.)

[Risvertasashi]

No, I just prefer more R&D and production line style, kind of like Firefail before it was, well, firefail... or kinda EVE-ish but maybe not that extreme. Actually, come to think of it, FC workshop crafting isn't too far off, though it of course ties into the existing crafting system for components.

And, yes, I don't like 'rotations'. So I don't really play DPS, mostly I play the healers as they have the situational skillsets.

[Mithrahn]

No, I just prefer more R&D and production line style, kind of like Firefail before it was, well, firefail... or kinda EVE-ish but maybe not that extreme. Actually, come to think of it, FC workshop crafting isn't too far off, though it of course ties into the existing crafting system for components.

And, yes, I don't like 'rotations'. So I don't really play DPS, mostly I play the healers as they have the situational skillsets.

I have never used any single 'rotation' for crafting up until I got my ilvl 170/180 stuff, and to a certain extent even until i190/195/200. It was all situational for me. You don't have to blindly follow any 'rotation'. Heck you shouldn't really blindly follow them if you're crafting.
I mean, do you think you can even follow a rotation to do this?
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest.../blog/3029695/
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest.../blog/2977519/
By that I mean 99+ steps and probably infinity.

This comes from understand how your skills work. Once you have that - knowledge of your skills inside and out - you don't need 'rotations', because you know how to make the best use of every situation.
A x# step rotation could be done more efficiently or made shorter if you know your skills inside and out.

Though, I did say "you don't need rotations", what I mean is, you don't need to always follow someone else's "rotations" when crafting, in fact, I would highly discourage that unless you're content to remain a vulture rather than a pioneer.

Final Note: The first crafters made their own "rotations". The first crafters made their own gears. Isn't it time the rest followed suit and stop relying on others opening the gate for them, but rather open the gates with their own power?

[MN_14]

I have never used any single 'rotation' for crafting up until I got my ilvl 170/180 stuff, and to a certain extent even until i190/195/200. It was all situational for me. You don't have to blindly follow any 'rotation'. Heck you shouldn't really blindly follow them if you're crafting.

Crafting is completely situational if you're using the system properly and this applies for both early and the latest end game crafts. Rotations are designed to be simple for anyone to pick up and use without mastering crafting techniques, but they were ineffective for ARR crafts but moderately effective for HW crafts due to much reduced difficulty. With PT and other balance changes, it's been designed to allow anyone to follow a simple rotation and be able to build 10-11 stacks of IQ with ease but a crafter would flounder using this method if they actually released anything challenging.

The last and only time they introduced crafts that really required situational based approaches was the master 2 tokens (technically 4* materials and 3* artisan's offhands also required situational crafting but you could brute force your way with rotations or macros more easily). Unfortunately, these were deemed to be based completely on luck simply because most crafters never learned situational crafting and largely learned crafting through RNG free macros for 1* and 2* crafts, which were actually balanced for single class situational crafting. I think most crafters who used situational based methods kept the approach to themselves because to this day, I've never seen a video of the harder ARR crafts being done properly. A lot of players complained about how they ruined crafting so the entire system has been dumbed down to the way it is today.

[Risvertasashi]

Sort of. Yes there are skills that can take advantage of condition or other RNG elements but... then you have to balance that against buff durations and the potential cost of rebuffing. And, you know, failing that 90% chance of success skill 3 times in a row just really feels like RNGsus is giving you the middle finger. So it's the various buffs, IMO, that kind of push crafting towards a set rotation. The alternative is not so much situational as it is trusting in RNG...

Yeah you can stretch to 99 steps to mitigate that RNG... or almost guarantee it'll work out sooner or later... but at that point, I'd really rather just hit a macro that doesn't take 15+ minutes and annuls the influence of RNG. My 2 gil anyways.

[Solarra]

Caimie! You're back!
Just wanted to say thank you. Your guides were so helpful when I was levelling, especially when I felt I'd hit a wall.
I don't post often but I have found this community really helpful (so thanks to the rest of you guys, too).

As to helping newbies, it's easier if they are clear about their goals. I think a lot of people get into crafting not because they enjoy it but because they see the prices of crafted gear on the MB and assume it's is a gold-mine. They get to 60, assume they've made it and are a bit shocked by reality.
I got the impression that one of the people you referred to was hoping someone would give them 'magic 4* macro' so they could settle down to making gil without putting any effort in at all. The advice they received was sound; it might have been a little terse in tone but I could understand why some people were annoyed.

[Zojha]

Crafters are an actual class/job in this game. Aka like all those combat classes you're playing.

In fairness, if all combat classes had the exact same abilities, chances are a lot of people wouldn't like them either, because different people prefer different gameplay. Despite having 8 different classes however, crafters only offer a uniform gameplay and you either like it or you don't.

[Laerune]

I was confused at first when it came to crafting, but after reading the guides and leveling all my crafters (all are around 57-59), I am starting to understand them alot better. I have so far never used any macros and been able to HQ craft stuff with no difficulties. My question to the experienced crafters is: When is the best time to start using macros?

[Driavna]

Wait... what? One of the worst ones? You mean you prefer just pressing a button to queue-craft a whole batch of stuff like in other MMOs such as *cough*WoW*cough*?
Crafters are an actual class/job in this game. Aka like all those combat classes you're playing. Does that means you don't like the combat either?

(Personally I don't like the combat, and only reason I'm still playing this game is the crafting... and my friends, to a certain extent.)

At the end of the day FFXIV crafting is as simple as WoW's, why? NQ/HQ quality system, that alone kill any real deep but this can't be fixed because is a Theme Park not a Sand Box.