If a tank loses aggro, whose fault is it?

[Khemorex]

depends on the situation i guess :P

[DJaySaint]

Thanks for the replies. Too many to go through and quote so I'll respond to the most asked questions:

1. I did not look at the tank's gear. I looked at the other Black Mage's at the start because I always compare myself with another DPS to see what they are using and then compare our damage later on to try to get a feel if I am under performing or not. I am in mostly i230 gear with a few i260 in. I just started the game like 2 months ago. This other Black Mage had all i260 and i270 so she outgeared me by a pretty good margin (not that it matters with level sync, but spending that much time on a job you should not suck at it by now). Since the tank claims to be with the Black Mage every day, I would assume they are at least somewhat equally geared but that would be nothing more than a guess on my part.

2. I was using Quelling Strikes. I also intentionally severely gimped my rotation on the 2nd boss by using no damage boosting abilities whatsoever WITH Quelling Strikes active, while using only Blizzard III and Thunder/Thunder III procs. I was still far above the other Black Mage and fighting the tank for aggro. During trash pulls I would be green on all mobs, cast Flare, then red on all but maybe 1 or 2 which I was yellow on. This was not at the start of the fight either. At least not after a couple pulls (I've had some tanks I can double/triple Flare on at the start and not pull a single mob). So I started just using Fire II more and Flare less (or not at all). Eventually just Freeze...

At that point, when I am actively reigning in my damage to the point where it is total garbage, there is nothing I can do other than literally /sit in the middle of a fight which will be cause to boot me from a party for being AFK.

3. Yes I reported him and his partner for abuse of the vote kick system. Doing too much damage and asking a tank to use his AoE enmity tools is definitely not a reason to kick someone. As a tank I would want DPS going all out because it's the only way you learn how to handle it when you do get good DPS in your group. This guy just wanted ME to handle his enmity for him and would refuse to even attempt to get it back.

Someone mentioned about vote kicking the tank. That wouldn't be possible because he is paired with the other Black Mage. Unless I'm mistaken, you need 3/4 votes to pass yes (because you obviously can't vote for yourself)?

Anyway, the reason I even asked, because obviously in this situation the tank is at fault, is this is NOT the first time I've encountered this. I keep running in to tanks like this all the time. I just don't understand why there are so many tanks out there who behave like this, so I just wanted to make sure I wasn't setting my expectations too high by wanting a tank to actually... I don't know, TANK? Putting in minimal effort, then getting mad at the DPS for pulling aggro and berating them for not actively playing like crap so you as a trash tank can continue maintaining aggro is unacceptable. Well it should be. With my experience lately in Duty Finder, apparently this is a common practice.

[Elixirboy]

If a tank has no idea how to AoE tank in a level 57 dungeon, it is never going to happen for this person. My guess is it's the PotD Effect - leveling without ever having to learn how to play your role/job.

[EorzeaHero69]

Someone mentioned about vote kicking the tank. That wouldn't be possible because he is paired with the other Black Mage. Unless I'm mistaken, you need 3/4 votes to pass yes (because you obviously can't vote for yourself)?

It's 2/3 people for 4 man instances, and I think 4/7 for 8 man instances (That includes the person who initiated the vote).

[ShinMetsu]

It's 2/3 people for 4 man instances, and I think 4/7 for 8 man instances (That includes the person who initiated the vote).

^ This :P
There is only 3 votes as the targeted person doesn't get to vote, so.. if there is 2 friends in a dungeon, they can always kick anyone.
If you notice there's 2 friends in a dungeon and an argument breaks out with one of them, in that case it's probably the smartest thing to just back off and comply to not lose exp/time!
Although sometimes not being smart feels better :P

As for whose fault, definitely the tank in this case. And don't worry about him defending his girlfriend, it's what most people would do.
Say anything and make up anything to protect their feelings.

My personal rules for DPS/Tank faults in dungeons are..
Tank is always at fault with randoms, except for...
DPS goes ham while you are still running ahead to pull more mobs.
DPS uses a heavy single target burst in huge AoE pulls. (Tank is responsible to respond to this though and get aggro back)

It's a little more complex in savage, along with NIN enmity dumps/shift as well as random or static, but that's not relevant anyway, i guess!

[Adire]

I never have felt the vote kick system is fair right now. Why does the person who started the kick get counted as a yes but the person being voted on isn't counted as a no?

I've seen it lead to situations where whoever starts the kick first wins. Incredibly juvenile way of handling things.

[vigioX-Sun]

Tank is at foult no matter the situation.
an do not bring raid experience here because if you doing raid is because you know what you are doing an we all know is about teamwork.

[ErikMynhier]

I'm a better tank because I got yelled at early on. In coming from XI I moved from mostly dps and a sometimes tank of a DRK to a full time PLD here. If people had not pointed out errors (and were kind enough to tell me how to do better) I would be a lot worse.

Life feeds on adversity, without it stagnants.

[Venoshock]

Tank is at foult no matter the situation.
an do not bring raid experience here because if you doing raid is because you know what you are doing an we all know is about teamwork.

What? No, it's not always the tanks fault if you want to play optimally. You're right about one thing though, if you're in a raid environment, you should know what you're doing and if you do know what you're doing you shouldn't be ripping hate from a tank.

Aggro loss isn't as black and white as you want it to be. If you're overhealing, using butchers block when it would rip aggro, not using aggro mitigation cds when doing your opener etc and forcing the main tank to use powerslash/RoH more than necessary , yeah the tank won't lose aggro and should not lose aggro, but at the same time you're being terrible team members which is just as bad as the tank losing aggro. I and many other raiders who know their shit would call it out.

It's one button which is on oGCD, press it ffs lol.

[Laerune]

Depends on the situation. Majority of the time its the Tank's fault, but there are times like when a Tank is new or undergeared where the blame can fall on the other roles, but 95% of the time its the Tank's fault.