What changes will push sch out of meta

[IttyBitty]

Another thought... Quick fix SE could do right now: Slash the cost of all WHM DPS spells (except maybe holy) in half.

WHM already tops the charts for healer DPS in both dungeons and raids. Just let them do that without needing MP support and it would have its own niche.

Selfish DPS doesn't make a class desirable. It actually has the exact opposite effect - we can see this VERY clearly by looking at MNK. Utiltiy and class synergy are what makes a group work better. "Selfish" classes would have to do so much more DPS to be desired that the meta would shift entirely to stacking them, most likely.

[Risvertasashi]

Selfish DPS doesn't make a class desirable. It actually has the exact opposite effect - we can see this VERY clearly by looking at MNK. Utiltiy and class synergy are what makes a group work better. "Selfish" classes would have to do so much more DPS to be desired that the meta would shift entirely to stacking them, most likely.

Ah, but WHM could still do bursty heals in between. And it would remove a big incentive for taking SCH instead -- currently SCH DPS is weaker, but self sufficient. Still no fairy, but WHM could spare a few GCDs out of cleric and still do a lot of healing in that brief time.

The only healer that has utility outside of direct healing and mitigation is AST. So both WHM and SCH are 'selfish' (as you use the word) already.

But you are right in that nothing will compare to RR'd balance, and groups already stack ASTs for parser runs.

[AlphaSonic]

I've made this comment in the past somewhere but I thought it would be pretty neat if the gave WHM so much healing power that they effectively tell you "You should run one healer and five DPS in your raid". I know it won't happen but the thought of it makes me giggle a little inside. Not really a thing to push SCH outta the meta but perhaps if we can encourage more diverse party compositions. There will also be on "absolute optimal" composition but at least having the differing options would reduce the thoughts of "uselessness" in some jobs.

Divine Seal becomes a trait >.<

[Kabzy]

I do love how people are complaining about SCH still when it's rather obvious that AST is by far the strongest healer right now. AST needs balancing, WHM needs a lot of love. Jobs like SCH and WAR are very well designed, it would be a shame if they got nerfed rather than the other jobs being buffed to their level.

Keep the game enjoyable for everyone, there's no need to hate on one job to basically get the same outcome for another expansion. If they're not adding a new tank or healer, then the least we can expect is some actual balancing that will make all three equally viable.

[Silver-Strider]

I don't think changes are necessary in general, just the new 60-70 skills need to be useful for group content.

WHM is suppose to be heavy about elemental support so maybe have more things involving element.
A stone totem that increases resistances
A rejuvenating breeze that restores TP/MP to allies
A water puddle AoE DoT

Things like that would help inprove WHM's overall in the meta without having to nerf SCH.

[Risvertasashi]

AST needs balancing, WHM needs a lot of love. Jobs like SCH and WAR are very well designed, it would be a shame if they got nerfed rather than the other jobs being buffed to their level.

You're actually not the first to say something like this, the OP even mentioned the thread wasn't supposed to be "how do we nerf SCH into the ground". But then the question becomes... how do you buff WHM on a level to compete with SCH? (And AST too, of course).

A lot of people don't think it can be done while SCH has a pet, however.

[Ghishlain]

Divine Seal becomes a trait >.<

And you still get a Divine Seal as well! MORE HEALING!

... okay maybe not but it's fun to think of xD

[Reivya]

And you still get a Divine Seal as well! MORE HEALING!

... okay maybe not but it's fun to think of xD

Just imagine the Regen ticks hitting as hard as Cure I lol
Then imagine the overheal xD I love it

As for what changes WHM could get to bring them up towards AST/SCH, I think WHM just needs some form of utility or mitigation, or perhaps instead a better way of managing MP while DPSing or just in general. Their healing kit is fine, it's just that only having 'large heals' as the class' identity isn't very useful when a lot of the content does not or cannot require that much raw healing power.

[Risvertasashi]

Their healing kit is fine, it's just that only having 'large heals' as the class' identity isn't very useful when a lot of the content does not or cannot require that much raw healing power.

It's more than just that. The other healers aren't really behind on healing power. 2x lightspeed helios is just as good as Cure III at equivalent MP cost. Actually, 2x helios slightly more healing, and with no cast time you can have 2 of them as the first cure III goes off. This is before you factor in AST stance bonuses.

And there's nothing so tightly timed you need to have to healed within a single GCD anyways, unless you're trying to cheese/ignore tank swap mechanics... which again, you don't need a WHM to do even still.

People talk about WHM like it's the king of raw heals but it's not anymore. It hasn't been for a long time. And that's a big part of the problem. Even the 'one' thing WHM is supposed to do well, it's outclassed in. You can add content that requires insane amounts of healing, and AST will still be the better raw throughput healer.

[Reivya]

Yeah I agree that WHM has kind of lost its identity. AST has been on WHM's level for some time with their various buffs, and that's probably how it should be, honestly. Content is balanced around the idea that all healer comps should be able to handle it, therefore AST has to be able to heal just as well as a WHM in any particular fight running AST/SCH. Whether that meant outgoing damage was lessened, rendering WHM's extra healing unneeded, or that AST was brought up to WHM's level of healing power, which is what ended up happening, both cases highlight the issue that WHM simply doesn't bring anything else to the table while the other two healers bring a lot of utility.

Their strength of 'raw healing power' would've disappeared with the addition of any other healer really. It's why I'm hoping for some kind of utility for WHM in the expansion that gives them a new identity that actually distinguishes them from the other healers.