New Housing Zone + Moving existing house

[Shougun]

You should only be able to own one house per account per server tbqh.

Agreed, people shouldnt be able to own 3 houses.

I have no intention to derail Altena's thread and I'm pretty sure we're looking/feeling similarly on hopefully how things go down (fair system that has no preference for or against people) but if they feel it is within bounds of their thread... Seems like we were already talking about this a little anyway, but just me know if you feel its a little meh on the topic lol.

Is there a good solution? I can think of a few things but it feels clunky and I'm not sure if its just because I'm missing something obvious or if its just due to how the system is in the first and thus everything following is going to be awkward.

So what I mean is, I agree especially on servers that are higher capacity players should not be able to play realtor and sit on/markup/hoard houses (due to the limited resource, wouldn't care if people sold houses if it wasn't limited - like selling other stuff on the MW), but they can and do. We know of FC that buy out many houses in an area for their selves and members, and I don't really mind on empty servers (I just care people have the opportunity to have a house if they choose).

But:
You as a player can own many houses through multiple characters, if you're legacy/standard this is 8 characters per server. So one person could easily have 8 personal houses (legacy especially because of all the gil issues and time we've had). But wait, we're not done - you can also have a house under a FC. That's another 8 houses, assuming you can get the measly 4 people together to start one and the relatively simple rank 6 to buy one.

So the technical truth is one player can hold 16 houses, of course its more likely at least one of those is an active FC shared with other people and not a shell FC.. (so 15), but its an example. Consuming 16 doesn't sound like a big number but consider that EVERY single number counts and that again a lot of Legacy servers have massive gil issues (on specific dedicated players/groups) and are prebuilt with maximum number of characters without buying another account (which some people do, pay for multiple accounts - or are a family so they have multiple). Again considering that it's not some 1% of 1% of 1% that can do this, yes its not the most average player that's for sure, but there are enough that its still of concern. One of the people I knew who decorated the FC house had near max capped gil (well like 20% off but still lol), locking up all remaining 15 houses would be a soft pillow slap on their bottom to accomplish.

The clunky solution, I've already half proposed (and others/yourself) and until SE does something else to their base system not sure there is anything better.. is that a player may not have more than one house on an account; however, what about FC houses? A player may only own one FC house on account as well? That'd be two houses per player or if you don't lock FC houses then its still 7-9 shell houses (depending on your group/use). As they don't have to be a specific size it's not that costly either (don't have to be large), which makes owning multiple quite feasible (I mean I could own multiple smalls/mediums if I wanted and I'm not rich).

If you do lock stuff down for both FC & Personal, which leads to a max of three houses being used (1 FC shell, 1 personal (maybe shell), and 1 real FC if you're not the FC owner) it could head towards interesting situations like what if your FC leader stops playing and ownership of the FC transfers to you... But you own a FC house on another character, so even though you're a veteran and the next person below you is like 5 days old vs your two years.. would it still skip you? Because you had a house? Would you get a chance to absorb items or give up a house? After all that penny pinching you're still looking at thousands of accounts able to eat two to three houses, many of them tightly bound together in relationship (family, friends, guild). The funny thing to add is if you make houses far more expensive you're still looking at the same people owning the majority of houses XD (at least when they're cheaper more casual players can compete to the purchase).

It's just, lol. . .

Everyone will have differing opinions but as Shougun put it quite well - "You have a house, let me get a new one" is quite an unfair opinion to have.

I also want to stress that a house moving feature does not reduce the number of plots available. It's trading a plot for a plot. People who don't have a house, don't have less of a chance of obtaining one - it in fact opens up slots in current zones (which are not currently available) for those that actually do not wish to buy a plot in the new zone. It's a win/win for most people..

Even if you wish to argue that a house mover can "tell their friends" that they are moving - this will happen whether the moving feature is there or not.
Player wants to move, so they relinquish their plot and their friend buys it off them immediately.
Player now does not have a house and is able to buy a plot in the new zone.
This can happen today, or tomorrow, or 5 days before the new zone is opened. You have literally no chance in knowing when this would happen..

The only difference here with allowing a move feature is likely even more advantageous to people who aren't friends with this person - as the player can only move when the new plot opens. This time is very predictable and is up for grabs to pretty much anyone - as they will obviously "relinquish" their old plot the moment they move, which is also when the new zone opens.

The argument that "you paid 50 mil, and you already reaped the benefits so you should have to relinquish it and pay it again!" is utter rubbish.
When I paid 50 mil for my house, I expected that I would never have to pay money for a house ever again - aside from perhaps some kind of fee if the move feature ever came in play, and/or any new addon features ended up popping up.

As for the comment about "being at work" - sorry but no. That's not an excuse.
It sucks that you had work, it really does. However in a game setting, you still had the same opportunity. I am sure other people have personal life reasons why they weren't able to be online at the time each wave of the wards opened - however that is purely on their neck, not on SE or the player's who made sure they were able to login on time to purchase one.

Lastly I do wish to raise some current issues about the housing system that I really hope we see resolved before Shirogane gets released. So this is the section of my post you guys probably will agree with (at least some of them).

1) 1 house, per server, per account - This is obvious why. People are buying houses on their lvl 1 alts, or empty rank-8 FC's, attempting to make money from it or simply to say "I have 16 houses because I am an a.hole".

2) Delay sale of houses for 1hr after maintanence, and open wards progressively (perhaps 2-hourly) rather than all at once - While this might not solve the issue entirely, however open Ward 1, 1hr after maintainance ends. Open Ward 2, 2hrs after ward 1 opened etc etc.. Until all wards are open / sold. My reason for suggesting something like this is it will avoid the "server's up! flock to to the wards!".. It will also give people a chance to get situated and "camp".. In addition to this, none of this "I was at work" excuse would be a thing unless you work 22 hour days (11 wards currently, 2hrs per ward = 22hours).

3) Open half the wards up for movers only (perhaps subdivision?), and half the wards up for new home owners - Look, I am fine to meet you guys half way. If you don't want movers to take all the "new and shiny" plots (which won't happen by the way.. I daresay the move feature will be more complicated than it is to buy a house which already puts us at a disadvantage) then split them, 50/50.. Yes you will get half the available plots in the new wards - however you will also get those xx amount of plots from the movers once all is said and done available to you for purchase - after they have moved.

Indeed agreed :3. Would love for all of this not to be an issue (infinite candy for everyone, you get an instance, you get an instance!) but with what we have I believe what has been proposed by you and similar ideas is most fair. Just because you had the old iFun7 doesn't mean you can't get inline for the new iFun8, if you have to relinquish the old one that's not so bad but you shouldn't be locked out of spending your money on a new one. :P

[Altena]

Everyone will have differing opinions but as Shougun put it quite well - "You have a house, let me get a new one" is quite an unfair opinion to have.

I also want to stress that a house moving feature does not reduce the number of plots available. It's trading a plot for a plot. People who don't have a house, don't have less of a chance of obtaining one - it in fact opens up slots in current zones (which are not currently available) for those that actually do not wish to buy a plot in the new zone. It's a win/win for most people..

Even if you wish to argue that a house mover can "tell their friends" that they are moving - this will happen whether the moving feature is there or not.
Player wants to move, so they relinquish their plot and their friend buys it off them immediately.
Player now does not have a house and is able to buy a plot in the new zone.
This can happen today, or tomorrow, or 5 days before the new zone is opened. You have literally no chance in knowing when this would happen..

The only difference here with allowing a move feature is likely even more advantageous to people who aren't friends with this person - as the player can only move when the new plot opens. This time is very predictable and is up for grabs to pretty much anyone - as they will obviously "relinquish" their old plot the moment they move, which is also when the new zone opens.

The argument that "you paid 50 mil, and you already reaped the benefits so you should have to relinquish it and pay it again!" is utter rubbish.
When I paid 50 mil for my house, I expected that I would never have to pay money for a house ever again - aside from perhaps some kind of fee if the move feature ever came in play, and/or any new addon features ended up popping up.

As for the comment about "being at work" - sorry but no. That's not an excuse.
It sucks that you had work, it really does. However in a game setting, you still had the same opportunity. I am sure other people have personal life reasons why they weren't able to be online at the time each wave of the wards opened - however that is purely on their neck, not on SE or the player's who made sure they were able to login on time to purchase one.

Lastly I do wish to raise some current issues about the housing system that I really hope we see resolved before Shirogane gets released. So this is the section of my post you guys probably will agree with (at least some of them).

1) 1 house, per server, per account - This is obvious why. People are buying houses on their lvl 1 alts, or empty rank-8 FC's, attempting to make money from it or simply to say "I have 16 houses because I am an a.hole". This should have been the system from the get-go, however it wasn't, and was a massive oversight on SE's behalf. They stuffed up, they are yet to fix it, and while they may not be able to undo it in a fair way - they can at least add it before the next wave of wards come up for sale.

2) Delay sale of houses for 1hr after maintanence, and open wards progressively (perhaps 2-hourly) rather than all at once - While this might not solve the issue entirely, however open Ward 1, 1hr after maintainance ends. Open Ward 2, 2hrs after ward 1 opened etc etc.. Until all wards are open / sold. My reason for suggesting something like this is it will avoid the "server's up! flock to to the wards!".. It will also give people a chance to get situated and "camp".. In addition to this, none of this "I was at work" excuse would be a thing unless you work 22 hour days (11 wards currently, 2hrs per ward = 22hours). The only real issue I see with this is someone could realistically be online for the full 22hours and still not get a plot because they may not be as fast a clicker as everyone else. Sounds like a lot of stress for people to have for a long time, however at least they don't fill up before you can blink.

3) Open half the wards up for movers only (perhaps subdivision?), and half the wards up for new home owners - Look, I am fine to meet you guys half way. If you don't want movers to take all the "new and shiny" plots (which won't happen by the way.. I daresay the move feature will be more complicated than it is to buy a house which already puts us at a disadvantage) then split them, 50/50.. Yes you will get half the available plots in the new wards - however you will also get those xx amount of plots from the movers once all is said and done available to you for purchase - after they have moved. The other advantage with this is you could effectively open it up to the movers FIRST without consuming all of the Shirogane plots, which would allow the older wards to open up and new home owners could then decide if they want to move into an old or a new, based on the new plots that are available..

I mean I daresay the move feature will require you to remove all furniture at the least.. And I definitely don't have 240 empty slots on my retainer setup in order to store all of that. and I am sure most others won't so that's another issue I can see.. If this is the case then it's just another step a house mover would have to sort out before they are allowed to move.. It's a lot easier to hit the "Purchase land" "Yes" buttons.. On top of that I daresay the move feature will require some back and forthing or some weird clunky design as SE tend to do some strange things on the simplest tasks at times

4) Delay the availability after a mover or relinquish for an old plot, for some amount of time - This suggestion came from Shougun on one of his earlier posts. If the whole "friend can sweep in and pick up all the old plots if they were told it was going to be available!" thing is such a big deal to people (which in my eyes it's not - networking always has its advantages in an MMO), then delay the availability for some time (perhaps an hour? a day?) after the plot gets relinquished.

snip

The workaround option to the FC thing I feel is if they were to increase the number of required people in that FC to a certain number - based on the size of the plot the FC owns. (Not sure if this is already the case?)

For example an FC that owns a Medium should have 8? or 10? people in the FC as a bare minimum. A large maybe 20?

They could also work this in similar to what happens if you don't visit your house for xx (45?) days as a private estate owner - it gets relinquished if your member count drops below this number and remains that way for 45 days. There are a number of solutions to this I think.. And of course there are just as many workarounds that people can do - but the more annoying you make those workarounds, the harder it is for people to actually maintain those houses and many will generally just not bother.

[ffchampion]

Everyone will have differing opinions but as Shougun put it quite well - "You have a house, let me get a new one" is quite an unfair opinion to have.

I also want to stress that a house moving feature does not reduce the number of plots available. It's trading a plot for a plot. People who don't have a house, don't have less of a chance of obtaining one - it in fact opens up slots in current zones (which are not currently available).

thing is not everyone wants one in the old zones. for example i only want one in the new zone as my main is a Nin, i might pick up Sam in the future and i do like the japanese culture in general so for me the japanese themed district is amazing and i'm really excited even if all i can buy is a small plot. i'd be so disappointed if they all filled up due to people moving. So i agree on the point of limit x amount for new and x amount for movers

[Altena]

thing is not everyone wants one in the old zones. for example i only want one in the new zone as my main is a Nin, i might pick up Sam in the future and i do like the japanese culture in general so for me the japanese themed district is amazing and i'm really excited even if all i can buy is a small plot. i'd be so disappointed if they all filled up due to people moving. So i agree on the point of limit x amount for new and x amount for movers

*sigh* I am getting extremely tired of repeating myself. Please just read some of the previous posts.

You =/= everyone.

Not everyone who currently has not got a house, wants one in the new zone. Not allowing private estates to move significantly reduces the opportunity for the people that want a house in the older zones to obtain one. You will still have every opportunity to obtain a plot in the new zone.

[LalaRu]

The only way to turn off the housing shortage is make the plots instanced, I guess devs intended the residential districts being full with people around and stuff going on, but as I can see in these years, the map is just empty and the only dudes around are just going to their house.

When you enter your plot you enter your instance, your garden and house. When you want buy housing, you just choose the one you like the most and buy your instance.

No more multiple wards, no more space problems, no more plot wars in first 5 minutes of server on, problem solved.

And no more housing for a selected few only. The real question devs need to pose to themselves is, really housing needs keep intended for the elite?

Instanced housing exists even in low budget f2p, I found hard to believe it cannot be done here.

[Celef]

The only way to turn off the housing shortage is make the plots instanced, I guess devs intended the residential districts being full with people around and stuff going on, but as I can see in these years, the map is just empty and the only dudes around are just going to their house.

When you enter your plot you enter your instance, your garden and house. When you want buy housing, you just choose the one you like the most and buy your instance.
No more multiple wards, no more space problems, no more plot wars in first 5 minutes of server on, problem solved.

And no more housing for a selected few only. The real question devs need to pose to themselves is, really housing needs keep intended for the elite?

Instanced housing exists even in low budget f2p, I found hard to believe it cannot be done here.

So sad SE is being so stubborn about this....I mean it's ok to screw things up, it happens to everyone, I don't get why they admited t with the Diadem and rework and but won't with housing.
In french we have a proverb saying "Faute avouée est à moitié pardonnées" that could be translated as....hum..."Confession of a fault, is half amended." according to google so....GO ON SE ADMITT IT SO WE CAN SOLVE THE PROBLEM ALL TOGETHER !!!!!

[ffchampion]

*sigh* I am getting extremely tired of repeating myself. Please just read some of the previous posts.

You =/= everyone.

Not everyone who currently has not got a house, wants one in the new zone. Not allowing private estates to move significantly reduces the opportunity for the people that want a house in the older zones to obtain one. You will still have every opportunity to obtain a plot in the new zone.

thats why i said i agree with limiting for some having space for move but others for new. that way it opens up new and old areas for availability

[Altena]

The only way to turn off the housing shortage is make the plots instanced, I guess devs intended the residential districts being full with people around and stuff going on, but as I can see in these years, the map is just empty and the only dudes around are just going to their house.

When you enter your plot you enter your instance, your garden and house. When you want buy housing, you just choose the one you like the most and buy your instance.

No more multiple wards, no more space problems, no more plot wars in first 5 minutes of server on, problem solved.

And no more housing for a selected few only. The real question devs need to pose to themselves is, really housing needs keep intended for the elite?

Instanced housing exists even in low budget f2p, I found hard to believe it cannot be done here.

This is indeed the elephant in the room. Instanced housing, while they may not live up to SE's dream of creating a whole bunch of "neighbourhoods" with people running around and hanging out in each other's yards etc - it is just more effective on the mass scale. I mean the current housing is fantastic in terms of what it allows those with a house to do - however for such a high demand and what seems to be the inability to supply enough plots on SE's end, it poses a rather large problem

So sad SE is being so stubborn about this....I mean it's ok to screw things up, it happens to everyone, I don't get why they admited t with the Diadem and rework and but won't with housing.
In french we have a proverb saying "Faute avouée est à moitié pardonnées" that could be translated as....hum..."Confession of a fault, is half amended." according to google so....GO ON SE ADMITT IT SO WE CAN SOLVE THE PROBLEM ALL TOGETHER !!!!!

I think the issue is more that it's already been and done. People have spent millions of gil on it and to change that now would be kind of short handing those people. I would be fine with swapping to an instanced version of my house because honestly I am the only one that goes there.. Though I do have to say it is nice to have met some neighbours that I run into all the time.

Diadem was content that they could redesign because for the most part - the content was obsolete and all of the gear drops were easily replaced. Not hard to basically delete that bit of content and start it again.. Housing is very different as it's always going to be relevant.

thats why i said i agree with limiting for some having space for move but others for new. that way it opens up new and old areas for availability

Ah my apologies then. I misunderstood your notion on this one. Many posts are just getting blurred together with similar arguments that I have already responded to in this thread so I hope you can understand my confusion.

[Riardon]

They should add more housing wards on the existing areas as well. The day Shirogane opens it will be a major drama day. All plots will be gone in few hours and there will still be people without owning a house. Also how you are supposed to move your plot when there will be no free plots left?

[Evergrey]

They should add more housing wards on the existing areas as well. The day Shirogane opens it will be a major drama day. All plots will be gone in few hours and there will still be people without owning a house. Also how you are supposed to move your plot when there will be no free plots left?

"few hours"? You have alot of faith now don't you? ^^