What's with all the hate toward mentors?

[AmeliaVerves]

If you actually read what I posted you'd understand I don't think ANY of the requirements to become a mentor mean they have the knowledge and experience to be called one. Like I stated Healers and Tanks get handed commendations, I merely pointed out how players get to that status and HOW that crown gives off the assumptions that these players with them, are better then those without them.

I think you don't see what the crown was ment to be for.

It's a sign you can put on, so a new player that just entered the game can see directly "Oh, this is a person that knows briefly what to do in the game/role and I can proceed and aks that guy for advice!".
And not: "Oh this is a uber god. Took down every existing savage/ex raid and knows every class in every detail + most nice and kind person in this world."

[Squigley]

Is it true that Mentors are turning their crown off because they don't want to be associated with the stigma surrounding mentors?

Guilty as charged. I think I wore my crown for less than a day. I simply don't want to be seen as one of Those People(tm). Unfortunately that crown has become somewhat of a warning sign for me because of bad personal experiences. I've seen some good and helpful mentors too but they are a small minority.

[Jetstream_Fox]

I think you don't see what the crown was ment to be for.

It's a sign you can put on, so a new player that just entered the game can see directly "Oh, this is a person that knows briefly what to do in the game/role and I can proceed and aks that guy for advice!".
And not: "Oh this is a uber god. Took down every existing savage/ex raid and knows every class in every detail + most nice and kind person in this world."

You would be wrong to make that assumption. Like I stated, I don't believe in the system or it's requirements to become a mentor, I firmly believe however, if you're a mentor that you're to be respectful and knowledgeable. Again it is a pointless system, that is flawed beyond belief, that really has no purpose in this game other than to give players a false pretense as to what a good player is.

And I must be correct in saying it's a pointless flawed system, because so many mentors turn their crowns off. You yourself admitted to turning off because some jackass believed you were a bad mentor, as did Squiggly to avoid stigma. So obviously players are seeing people with these crowns on and thinking "they're better players than myself" and then all hell breaks loose when something happens. You're going to be blamed because you're the mentor and that symbol states you're knowledgeable, and again that's flawed and unfair because like your situation you entered with the crown on as a class you do not really understand yet.

So again, I don't believe in it, I don't think it's a good system, it gives false pretenses at times, and overall adds very little to the game in terms of content.

[alimdia]

If you actually read what I posted you'd understand I don't think ANY of the requirements to become a mentor mean they have the knowledge and experience to be called one. Like I stated Healers and Tanks get handed commendations, I merely pointed out how players get to that status and HOW that crown gives off the assumptions that these players with them, are better then those without them.

But that's the thing, it doesn't give that assumption at all, that's again your misconception.

If you take a closer look at the requirements to be a mentor you will see what post #8 pointed out, "it means you are willing to help new players and have a very minimal baseline of experience to do that", it means nothing else.

You say mentors are viewed as "players of good moral standings and knowledge", but none of the requirements to be a mentor is a test of knowledge or morals, so viewing it as such is a misconception of the system, and a rather insulting one because it (unintentionally) implies if you don't have the crown you have no knowledge or good morals.

You say mentors "have intermediate knowledge and have earned high regards from your fellow players", but none of the requirements can be even classified as intermediate, there's very little knowledge required in getting three jobs to 60 or crafting 100 collectables, and I really don't get the "high regards from your fellow players", I've never seen a game with mentor system where people are worshiped for becoming a mentor, yet again this is not why the system was put in place, it's not some sort of special club, it's just an identifier that you have done a few dungeons or gathered a few things and have very minimal experience to answer new player questions or help them with some leveling dungeon.

You would be wrong to make that assumption. Like I stated, I don't believe in the system or it's requirements to become a mentor, I firmly believe however, if you're a mentor that you're to be respectful and knowledgeable. Again it is a pointless system, that is flawed beyond belief, that really has no purpose in this game other than to give players a false pretense as to what a good player is.

We came back a full circle now, you don't believe in the requirements because you have a different definition of what is to be a mentor, your definition doesn't match SE's or their requirements, and we go back to my first post, forget about your expectations for this role and accept the one the devs intended. You're free to suggest improvements on the system, but first you have to understand the purpose of FFXIV's mentor system, which is nothing more than what Amelia stated.

[Mithrahn]

You would be wrong to make that assumption. Like I stated, I don't believe in the system or it's requirements to become a mentor, I firmly believe however, if you're a mentor that you're to be respectful and knowledgeable. Again it is a pointless system, that is flawed beyond belief, that really has no purpose in this game other than to give players a false pretense as to what a good player is.

The moment they decided to give item rewards (Mounts) for being a Mentor/Senpai/WhateverTheSystemisCalledinOtherLanguages was when it was doomed to "not be what it was intended for". Even if the requirement for being a mentor was made harder, so long as there's some sort of valuable reward, there will be people who do not care about helping others take up the mentor/senpai/whatever post.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying there won't be such people if there were no reward of value, but it will give less reason to take up the mentor/senpai/whatever unless you truly wish to help someone.

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(Also, I agree that it's not like you can't help/guide people without the "Crown", I mean, isn't that what most of us have been doing before the "Crown" existed?)

[Oso]

Best way to handle this:

"For the newbies: Trial by fire or tips desired?"

The point is, there was a mentor in the parties and neither were of any assistance to the leafs...and one was actually being detrimental to the green lef by running ahead and getting agroed by mobs!!

[Maero]

Perhaps because a large chunk of "mentors" use mentor roulette and the other things to just benefit themselves and not actually help new players

[AmeliaVerves]

You yourself admitted to turning off because some jackass believed you were a bad mentor, as did Squiggly to avoid stigma.

I do, but it's neither SEs fault, nor the system ones.
The players were the ones making me feel guilty and out of place for several times, when I was wearing the crown. Not the system. Not SE.

While I can understand your arguments, I don't really get the point of view those are leading you to.
When the system isn't stating anything but: "Those players have 3 classes on lvl60 and did 1.000 dungeon runs." (which everyone ones), how can this lead someone to: "Mentors should know everything, should be most kind and polite people in the world and should be able to explain every freaking mechanic and class and how to min max every possible rotation ov every class." ?

Isn't it rather a problem in peoples minds than in the system itself? ._.
(I do admit that the noun "mentor" is maybe misguiding some people, as it seems like those players are really really advanced in gameplay. Maybe they should have thought about something else? Probably something more neutral would have been better. "Senior" or "Trouper"? I am not native english and found trouper in a dictionary app meaning something like "experienced co-worker". Is that correct?)

[Alleo]

I barely wear my crown anymore since I am kinda afraid that people will have a negative opinion about me even though I always try to explain things. But since I got my crown as a gatherer/crafter and since I also dont have all jobs to 60 I cant really give advise about some jobs. I do understand the basics and if I see a new tank for example that tanks the monsters wrong I will try my best to explain it to them.

I have only done the mentor roulette a couple of times and I always felt quite the pressure. I do have the feeling that a lot of people have way to high expectations about the mentor system and at the same time there are some bad mentors there..both reasons are why I barely take out my crown.

Just a little reminder: Please dont forget that the roulette can take us in a lot of dungeons and as humans we can forget things. Having some mentors not explaining the mechanics does not necessarily mean that they are lazy or bad, it just could mean that they are not sure anymore how the dungeon functions.

[LineageRazor]

Let's get one thing straight: anyone who claims that "most mentors are bad" is offering up a heaping helping of perception bias, because NO ONE has met "most mentors". A few folks have a bad run-in with some bad mentors, and come to the forums to gripe about it, and suddenly its an epidemic. Same goes for "most mentors are in it for the prestige or rewards" - except folks are even LESS qualified to speak on that, since none of us are psychic and have no idea what's really going through mentors' heads.

Remember that the forums are primarily a place where people go to COMPLAIN. You aren't going to find a lot of fifty-page threads where folks gush about the positive experiences they've had in game (there are a few, to be fair).

Becoming a Mentor is not hard. Pretty much anyone who plays the game long enough will fulfill the requirements to become one, and once those requirements are met the crown is just a short quest away. Since there IS a quest, though, becoming a mentor was an active decision the mentor made; they became a mentor because they wanted to, for whatever reason. When you become a mentor, a window pops up explaining the general guidelines of mentor conduct, so every mentor knows what mentoring is supposed to be about.

So, let's assume the worst, that every mentor bar a handful could care less about mentoring, wears the crown like some kind of status symbol, is only in it for the mount, etc, etc - all the vitriol splashing into General Discussion like sewage from a broken main. However apathetic a mentor might be, when they enter an instance they are interested in CLEARING that instance, just like anyone else would be. Because of the pop-up upon becoming a mentor, they know that the crown is a beacon of sorts; even if they aren't actively stepping up to help people, they know that people are going to ask them questions. So, what will these mentors, who are interested in clearing a run with a minimum of fuss going to do when someone asks a question? The same thing that non-mentors would do in the same situation: answer it. They want to get things done, and helping the newbie out is going to get things done faster and more efficiently than abusing them would, or kicking them would. Mentors will mentor, even if only out of pure, pragmatic self-interest.

And that's the worst case. My personal experience does not support the worst case by any means. The Novice Network is FILLED with mentors who wish to be helpful. While it's true that the network is often subject to inane chatter that has little to do with helping newbies, the moment someone asks a question mentors are tripping over each other trying to help out.

So, no. Folks who've had run-ins with bad mentors and have come to the forums to complain are a niche minority in the overall community, and there is not a worrisome trend of abusive mentors plaguing the system. There are some, to be sure, just as there are abusive players of every stripe, but not enough to indicate that the mentor system has failed, or should be abolished.