Please consider the follow suggestion

[Fluffernuff]

snip

Normally I would agree, but in the example above "Why the f*ck are you playing BLM, go SMN." Is neither helpful, or even criticism. They did not explain WHY they should go SMN. They didn't explain WHY BLM was a poorer choice. They just berated a guy because they saw a Job icon. You also bring up how communication is needed in Feast. Have you perchance tried Feast for your GARO mounts? Any of them solo?

You sit there and look at the BRD, SMN, AND BLM all with 300+ medals over-extending and not a single person targetting them? You mark them and their health never drops? even WITH chat, you can only spam "Attack X" so many times. How much tolerance do YOU have for being ignored? My tolerance is rather low after 5 minutes.

Not to say i disagree wholly with your points, it's just that helpfulness from the PvP side has always been out of matches much more then in matches. there's just not enough time to type out a new strategy once there's 1 minute left, especially "nicely". With the ban in Feast, it's now EXCLUSIVELY out of matches...

[loreleidiangelo]

Normally I would agree, but in the example above "Why the f*ck are you playing BLM, go SMN." Is neither helpful, or even criticism. They did not explain WHY they should go SMN. They didn't explain WHY BLM was a poorer choice. They just berated a guy because they saw a Job icon.

Why wouldn't the player in question research beforehand before dropping face-first into a ranked mode? That was the first thing I looked up when the Garo event dropped, was what healers did best in Feast (it's WHM, by the way). Even then, if some group bothered to say, "why the F are you playing AST, go WHM" I'd simply respond with, "I know WHM is the superior choice assuming equal levels of skill, but I'm much more comfortable on my Astrologian. Give me a chance before assuming I'm a lost cause". It's not really that hard.

That said, I get that it's not hard to be a raging doodyhole over stuff like that too, but the issue about the chat ban at the base level is that the onus is no longer on new or bad players to process the information they're being given, even if it's harsh...the onus is now on veteran players to either silently carry or silently lose. And the onus SHOULD be on neither group of players, it should be on Square Enix to provide adequate moderation support so that the only people being targeted by the system as being toxic are people who are ACTUALLY toxic, not the PVP community at large.

[enthauptet]

Why wouldn't the player in question research beforehand before dropping face-first into a ranked mode?

I know this is a dumb thread. But this point is also dumb, there is no 4x4 unrated mode so arguing someone should research and do all this and that before even playing it first is not really fair to the player. Not only that but the game really doesn't even mention much about pvp at all. The quest to unlock it is like "hey player we have pvp" and that's about it.

[TiaHariberux3]

I know this is a dumb thread. But this point is also dumb, there is no 4x4 unrated mode so arguing someone should research and do all this and that before even playing it first is not really fair to the player. Not only that but the game really doesn't even mention much about pvp at all. The quest to unlock it is like "hey player we have pvp" and that's about it.

Well you should always research in PvE you research opener/rotation/mechanics (endgame) too unless u are world first raider. 4vs4 is like the "pvp endgame" so of course you should research beforehand PvPers even did a whole site to help new people... and while 8vs8 + fl doesnt feel like 4vs4 its still a good practice.

Even if chat was toxic its still not right to mute the chat for everyone.

[Nirokun]

Normally I would agree, but in the example above "Why the f*ck are you playing BLM, go SMN." Is neither helpful, or even criticism. They did not explain WHY they should go SMN. They didn't explain WHY BLM was a poorer choice. They just berated a guy because they saw a Job icon. You also bring up how communication is needed in Feast. Have you perchance tried Feast for your GARO mounts? Any of them solo?

You sit there and look at the BRD, SMN, AND BLM all with 300+ medals over-extending and not a single person targetting them? You mark them and their health never drops? even WITH chat, you can only spam "Attack X" so many times. How much tolerance do YOU have for being ignored? My tolerance is rather low after 5 minutes.

Not to say i disagree wholly with your points, it's just that helpfulness from the PvP side has always been out of matches much more then in matches. there's just not enough time to type out a new strategy once there's 1 minute left, especially "nicely". With the ban in Feast, it's now EXCLUSIVELY out of matches...

I never said there was no toxicity (I really hate this word, but, ugh), only that toxicity was not somehow more prevalent in PVP compared to PVE.

The reply from this player:

Actually it do was far more toxic than any chat. For the few feast I've done before 3.5 as BLM, it was all the time "Why the f*ck are you playing BLM, go SMN", and it's only about the job, there was far more

You can surmise that he doesn't know what he's doing. Patch 3.5 was released 1/16/17, his join date is set at December 2016. He was in Feast, not knowing what he was doing, and (I don't necessarily believe this) in multiple instances was told to go SMN over BLM. I can only offer the assumption that he was told this because SMN PVP burst is fairly straightforward and effective. Giving a new player the advice to go with a job that is easier for him to manage (because he was repeatedly critiqued to be bad at BLM, because good BLM stands out) is helpful. That being said, being THAT new, he probably didn't have SMN leveled, but not enough context given and it doesn't really change anything.

As far as going into depth as to why he should go SMN, remember, there isn't a lot of time to chit-chat in Feast. Having done a lot of Feast on SMN, I usually use the time at the start (before the chat-ban) to say what I'll do ("Repeat bane to pressure enemy healer, will coordinate with your burst if you mark", "enemy healer is bad and can be pushed down", "do you want/can i have both buffs?"). After that it's either chat macros to push a player, call an enemy burst sequence and notify healer, fall back, and to look at the chat log with sound effects for something important to winning. If it isn't a macro, I'm typing into chat after a death/respawn while I run back to the group.

I haven't done much Feast for Garo mounts (all ranked), 6 matches in I got a tank who was feeding the enemy team from the start, and reported him. He soured it for me, and I figure I'll just do that achievement when the new season comes.

As far as my tolerance for being ignored, it depends. If it's someone new/bad, you roll with it. If it's someone griefing (like the guy feeding), I will report. If it's someone who knows what they're doing, maybe they have a different plan and I try to adjust. Previously, I could use chat macros to communicate, I had added the "Charge", "Retreat", "Collecting Medals", and "Get Medals", but nothing else helps me the way I play Feast (I feel that SMN cannot carry a match, so I usually have to call the match to swing it in my favor, but I can't do that anymore).

Your complaining the player complaining about harassment are worse than the people doing the harassment...which seems to be a fairly common theme in these threads

Then perhaps it is deserved? There has also been repeat posts about what actually constitutes harassment, and what does not.

I know this is a dumb thread. But this point is also dumb, there is no 4x4 unrated mode so arguing someone should research and do all this and that before even playing it first is not really fair to the player. Not only that but the game really doesn't even mention much about pvp at all. The quest to unlock it is like "hey player we have pvp" and that's about it.

There is 8v8 unranked, and that is decidedly more casual. If the player is actually trying to rank up, loreleidiangelo's point still stands. You know that ranked and unranked, by definition, are more and less serious, respectively.

[jameseoakes]

Then perhaps it is deserved? There has also been repeat posts about what actually constitutes harassment, and what does not.

Given that they felt the need to remove the chat I guess there must have been some pretty high levels of abuse/harassment and if people think abusing other players is an acceptable why to try and teach people then it is no surprise the chat got removed.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Given that they felt the need to remove the chat I guess there must have been some pretty high levels of abuse/harassment and if people think abusing other players is an acceptable why to try and teach people then it is no surprise the chat got removed.

We also have to consider whether this was from the ranked Feast, unranked, or both that affected the dev's decision to remove chat.

[Nirokun]

Given that they felt the need to remove the chat I guess there must have been some pretty high levels of abuse/harassment and if people think abusing other players is an acceptable why to try and teach people then it is no surprise the chat got removed.

Or that the people with very low tolerance for criticism abuse the report feature? This in turn creates more work for GMs. Other, more precise methods of dealing with actual harassment have been proposed, specifically, receiving multiple complaints rendering an individual player mute, or for people to simply switch to another chat channel in the log. These don't impact players with good behavior (this has been stated many, many times before).