Question to healers regarding Limit Break and Duty Finder

[Gemina]

I am just curious if my fellow healers use LB when they notice the DPS members of the group save it/don't use it [when available]?

As I continue to try and optimize my role, this is something I noticed after getting into the habit of letting my tank get pretty low before hitting them with Benediction/Lustrate when these abilities are available. I do this more as SCH than I do WHM since Bene is one-time cast with a really long CD, but lately if I notice the DPS aren't using the LB and saving it, I will DPS like crazy and burn it up for a free big heal and then continue to DPS until I actually have to burn MP on healing.

I am posting this because I usually get frowned upon for doing this, but it just drives me crazy when I see the LB meter glowing in my face pull after pull, after pull, after pull. It is usually a tank who actually thanks me for doing this^^

[Holy-chan]

That certainly is a novel concept to me. Yes, the limit break is generally kept until the end, as I have seen commonly in parties. I typically use it on the first boss as monk, or at the very opening of the second boss, so that the first bar is full by the time the last boss encounter begins. This is sort of a rarely spoken thing to me, as if you use the healing limit break during a pull, you need to be sure that the DPS are not using it on bosses, and that the first bar will be full by the last boss, as people *will* use it on the last boss (... I hope), so it is a very difficult situation to assess in a random party. I certainly wouldn't hate you if you did that in a group I am part in, *if* I see why it has been used, but it can be a sketchy thing to assess when there's no real communication.

[Pence]

Sounds like a waste to me.......I'd not like to see this ever done.

[Gemina]

That certainly is a novel concept to me. Yes, the limit break is generally kept until the end, as I have seen commonly in parties. I typically use it on the first boss as monk, or at the very opening of the second boss, so that the first bar is full by the time the last boss encounter begins. This is sort of a rarely spoken thing to me, as if you use the healing limit break during a pull, you need to be sure that the DPS are not using it on bosses, and that the first bar will be full by the last boss, as people *will* use it on the last boss (... I hope), so it is a very difficult situation to assess in a random party. I certainly wouldn't hate you if you did that in a group I am part in, *if* I see why it has been used, but it can be a sketchy thing to assess when there's no real communication.

That is just it. It is typically saved until the last boss, and it is used to finish off the boss. I am not totally knowledgeable here, but assuming an LB1 bar fills quickly, how many times would it do so from start of the dungeon to the final boss? Twice?. Three times if including during the final boss? That is a pretty big loss if it used only once throughout the entire dungeon IME. You can best believe I will burn it up if I deem it fit. I am a healer. I have the power to do so!

[UAnchovy]

I don't think I would do that. In dungeons I tend to leave limit breaks for the appropriate DPS: usually melee DPS, but sometimes there's a boss who's a group. So my rule of thumb is: when tanking, almost never LB; when healing, never LB (except you can LB3 to save a raid); when DPSing, I can LB to kill the first or second boss, but it doesn't really matter, and then definitely LB to kill the final boss. On the first or second boss, I try to watch for how the party is doing. If we're just crushing it, then it doesn't matter, but if the party's a mess, finishing the fight quicker can be wise.

But I don't think I would ever LB1 or LB2 as a healer in duty finder.

[Holy-chan]

That is just it. It is typically saved until the last boss, and it is used to finish off the boss. I am not totally knowledgeable here, but assuming an LB1 bar fills quickly, how many times would it do so from start of the dungeon to the final boss? Twice?. Three times if including during the final boss? That is a pretty big loss if it used only once throughout the entire dungeon IME. You can best believe I will burn it up if I deem it fit. I am a healer. I have the power to do so!

It differs from dungeon to dungeon, but from my own experience running The Aery about a hundred times because Nidhogg's card just refused to drop for me (I'm a Triple Triad card collector at heart ), the limit break was not yet full on the first boss, and using it to finish off the second boss meant it was not full by the time the final boss battle begins - about three quarters of the way through. So, I'd use it at the very start of the second boss fight, and the limit break bar was either full or nearly so that we'd get an LB2 on the last boss by the time the final boss battle begins.

But it really differs from dungeon to dungeon. I can't exactly tell how much it does, I typically don't run the same thing much in a short time span, as this gets mindnumbing for me.

This being said, I have seen a fair amount of AoE limit breaks during large pulls in level 51-57 dungeons (and Aurum Vale) in random duty finder parties (therefore, without any prior agreement to do so), where you don't overgear everything by 50+ item levels and the limit break actually shaves off a good amount of time in those situations - moreso than using it on a boss. I oftentimes will commendate those people when used right, as it breaks out of the established norms, but is a good decision.

This being said (looks like I use this expression a lot), I ran Sohm Al yesterday evening as WHM, and being the ever aggressive WHM that I am, I used Holy one too many times and ended up completely dry on MP - a mistake I have done on more than one occasion in non-50, non-60 dungeons. I wished I had access to the healer limit break to heal the group at that time (even if I had been scolded for it), but it was before the first boss and we didn't have the bar filled yet. We lived, but it was very, very close.

[CookieMonsta]

I am just curious if my fellow healers use LB when they notice the DPS members of the group save it/don't use it [when available]?


I am posting this because I usually get frowned upon for doing this, but it just drives me crazy when I see the LB meter glowing in my face pull after pull, after pull, after pull. It is usually a tank who actually thanks me for doing this^^

The concept is sound however the numbers don't add up, the reason you are getting told off is because your personal DPS during the no-healing window isn't substantial enough to warrant losing a DPS LB1/LB2 to compensate after. DPS usually save it if the next phase is uncertain so they retain it for Tank LB and/or Healer LB3. Other times, its held for a fraction of the time because the DPS responsible for LB are going through an opener. If neither of the above apply, then the rest of your party are either scrubs who wouldn't realize the impact of the LB or they are so good that its irrelevant how LB is used.

If you are looking to explore non-DPS ways of using LB. Consider Tank LB2 during a heal check phase and getting everyone to go full ham on DPS, the Tank LB2 lasts for an absurd amount of time so with an exceptional 8 man party, you can actually output more damage than what the equivalent melee LB2 would provide. This was the common alternative LB strat for A8S during prog when we were pushing that tornado.

[DynamoAce]

I've never really found a reason to use it. While this may seem like it's nice to use, it's probably a lot more optimal for the DPS to use on bosses. Generally in DF most wanna rush through it in the quickest way possible. In most pulls you should be able to carry out a fair amount of DPS and heal when needed if you're with a decent group.

[Neela]

That is just it. It is typically saved until the last boss, and it is used to finish off the boss.

This is something i never got and probably will never get... if your are running in a grp where everybody knows at least the mechanics - LB3 should be fired out as soon as possible, there is no reason to keep it for the last 10%... especially in raids and savage is a chance that you'll gain bar 1 or even 2 back after using lvl3 in the first place. Waiting for the "fatality" move without a reason is the "real" waste of LB imo.

@topic: yeah seems unusual to me as well but i like different playstyles but be aware that most of the DDs will be confused or even get mad at you without explanation why you are doing this. At least most of the comm got used to use caster LB on trash mobs as well on speed runs - especially if you only have caster/range dds in your party, killing hugh trashmobs on the fly is better than saving it for the boss. Blm and Smn f.e. are loosing to much dps or connection to their rota if they use LB at all and half of the melee-lb power isn't really worth it in most of the times.

[Urthdigger]

Honestly, I've found the better option is to pick a DPS and call out for them to limit when you feel it's necessary. This means either having a melee use it on bosses (as mentioned above, try not to FINISH off the second boss with it, or it'll be rather low going into the final boss where it can build up to another bar), or having a caster use it on packs of monsters during large pulls (generally the better option IMO if large pulls are being done: Adds up to more damage overall, and large pulls are actually more dangerous than bosses typically). Ranged DPS are in kind of a weird position where they're SORTA AoE, but may not hit an entire pack with their line, and do less damage to a boss than a melee's single-target.