How would they fix PLD 4.0?

[aleph_null]

If we're talking about single target damage, sword oath is really good though, since auto attacks contribute around 25% of your single target dps. Deliverance is only better because of access to fell cleave and infuriate.

[Edewen]

The problem is paladin doesnt have a niche.

Warriors have the damage niche.
Paladins used to have the mitigation niche, and then Drk came along with thier excellent magic resistance and higher dps leaving paladin wanting.

Personally my fix for paladins would be simply. Let warriors keep thier dps niche, let drks keep thier magical resist.
Rework clemency.
Only castable on others *paladins are protectors after all and the following would be op as hell solo*
Give it an instant cast proc based on shield swipe. *get rid of useless pacification*

Basically, block, shield swipe, get a half mp instant cast clemency to use on a party member. Give paladins the ability to be a tank with a meaningful triage healer. Tune the heal and mp cost so it can be useful but not overwhelming. This would fix tp issues, make up for lower dps by allowing healers to dps more, and give a unique niche that meshes with the general idea and lore behind the paladin class.

[Reynhart]

Rework clemency

We'll still end up with "You're doing less damage than a DRK or a WAR, you're out". As for healers, they won't rely on you to heal incoming damage, so it'd probably end up in wasted MP.

paladins are protectors

An idea I posted some time ago is that PLD could use its mitigation tools on someone else, either by casting it directly on a target or combining them with Cover (That should work on magic damage too...). The idea would be that the OT PLD would "replace" the MT tank stance generally recommended for really big hits, allowing the MT to stay longer out of tank stance and thus increasing the overall raid DPS.

Or...Cover could transfer PLD's buffs to the covered target "Here, take this Fight or Flight for your opener, I need it less than you"

[Khalithar]

To the second, what would then replace the fun of stance dancing?

It doesn't have to be replaced with anything because stances as is don't really do much except for warrior and I think maybe they hurt more than help or do nothing at all.

To make it more concrete, get rid of oaths and nothing really changes at all. I think we can agree on that.

Get rid of grit and suddenly drk can use blood weapon which would be a drastic quality of life increase.

With warrior it would be more iffy of course and would require some rework. There would have to be definitive reasons to pop a steel cyclone instead of decimate or an inner beast instead of cleave.

[Khalithar]

Can't edit on mobile. Anyway, stance dancing is more fun on warrior because there are more options depending on stance. But that should be warriors thing, have warrior focus on the stance dancing mechanic.

I'd rather see grit and oaths scrapped and more emphasis placed on drks mp management gameplay since it's the only thing I can think of offhand.

As far as pld goes, I don't know what could be it's gameplay focus. But I do know that what it has now is pretty dull. My point being, make stances the warrior mechanic and change up the other tanks so they can deal their damage and hold threat in different ways.

[Khalithar]

By giving drk and pld a unique gameplay mechanic of their own that rewards you with higher damage and threat generation by playing them well rather than the purely binary defensive vs offensive stance.

[Allyrion]

I would like if PLD had a central gimmick mechanic, at least. Like Wrath on War or Dark Arts on DRK. Most jobs have some gimmick that enhances your rotation or builds up to be unleashed. Cards for AST, ammunition for MCH, aetherflow/dreadwyrm stacks for smn etc etc.

Paladin is just cooldowns and weapon skills (minor off gcd too).

[Shurrikhan]

By giving drk and pld a unique gameplay mechanic of their own that rewards you with higher damage and threat generation by playing them well rather than the purely binary defensive vs offensive stance.

Playing "well" is disturbingly vague, and the idea of being rewarded with what is usually a mutually exclusive benefit (damage and threat for having... mitigated? appropriately?) or having less than full enmity generation at the onset of a fight (since that benefit is waiting for you to... play... well?) should be no less worrisome.

[Shurrikhan]

We'll still end up with "You're doing less damage than a DRK or a WAR, you're out". As for healers, they won't rely on you to heal incoming damage, so it'd probably end up in wasted MP.

An idea I posted some time ago is that PLD could use its mitigation tools on someone else, either by casting it directly on a target or combining them with Cover (That should work on magic damage too...). The idea would be that the OT PLD would "replace" the MT tank stance generally recommended for really big hits, allowing the MT to stay longer out of tank stance and thus increasing the overall raid DPS.

Or...Cover could transfer PLD's buffs to the covered target "Here, take this Fight or Flight for your opener, I need it less than you"

I remember a suggestion at some point for trading out one of the new PLD skills (Divine Veil, I think) for Inspire.

The idea I saw most often was to allow the PLD to share his own (PLD) buffs with the party.
My own take was to grant benefits party-wide via your own damage, mitigation (via cooldowns; not just passive defense or parry/block), and healing done while Inspire was active, such as by increasing their attack/spell/heal power, magic defense, and maximum HP. Any effect done in any of those categories would open up that particular benefit type. All output thereafter sources any opened benefit, split evenly.
- Pop Inspire and start spamming Clemency to start increasing party maximum HP.
- Pop Inspire and then go ham on a boss in Sword Oath to bolster party output stats.
- Pop Inspire and let a full add group go ham on you while you're using Hallowed Ground, in order to build magic defense so that you can safely ignore raid-damage adds for a few explosions, rather than having to caster/ranged LB.

[Khalithar]

Snip

My point was to look at something like warrior and it's focus on stance dancing and how each stance has different abilities. Make warriors thing revolve around knowing when to be tanky and when to be more damage focused on damage. Again, make stances warriors thing.

Then with drk put its threat and survival gameplay in to the mp management and ditch grit entirely. Using dark side as often as possible and managing your mp, knowing when to use it for power slash for threat, a cool down like dark mind for extra mitigation, or soul eater for the hp on a clutch moment.

Do you see what I'm getting at?