Isn't it a bit disheartening whats on the Horizon to all Hw content?

[RaijinSupreme]

I take it you havent read all the post bashing the player base , or how its two post talkin about how horrible players are at doing mechanics , I wonder why that is?

1. You're right. I don't read those posts.

Those kinds of threads are created by toxic, elitist, and impatient people who don't understand that not everyone has the time or the ability to be logged in 24/7 running the same stuff over and over again.

These are the people that will log on the first day of a patch, play certain content for 15 hours straight, and then come here and complain that not everyone is as good as them.... on the first day.

OF COURSE people are going to be bad at mechanics, and that is, by far, NOT exclusive only to people who have never done ARR EX primals and raids. There are plenty of people who have been playing this game since 1.0 Alpha, and HAVE done all of the content right when they were released, who STILL get hit by Aoes, who STILL don't stand in towers, or stack, or take tethers, or nothing. Not everyone can be geniuses who will 100% dodge every mechanic that comes their way, or will have the time to zurge through fights to learn them before everyone else can.

Are players telling others that they shouldn't try and learn this new primal as their first primal well my question is according to the community why not the player base and many in this thread have said only do whats relevant.

2. It's like you're reading our post, but not actually understanding.

NO ONE said that new players SHOULDN'T run old content. NO ONE is STOPPING new players from running it. No one is keeping them out from those fights, and we even encourage new players to do them as intended IF THEY SO CHOOSE.

The ONLY thing I said personally, is that its neither a REQUIREMENT, nor is it ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.
Because, AGAIN, is has been possible for MANY players to clear the new, and most difficult content we have in the game RIGHT NOW without even touching the old stuff.

YOU LEARN WHAT YOU NEED TO LEARN FOR THAT FIGHT DURING THAT FIGHT

Running old content can definitely help, it can give them more practice with similar mechanics, but it is not mandatory, and it should not be seen as such. That's the last time i'm going to address that point, cause I have no other way of making that clear. I ELI5'ed it for you.

so I see it in post from other players all the time "you would think by this point people would know how to do these fights". And my question is where and how if the community tells them to skip all the other ones but the latest ones, it just cant go both ways. Dont tell people do whats relevant and then complain if they dont know how to do it because they skipped everything else to try and get to whats relevant.

3. The only people who make these kinds of complaints are people who have extreme tunnel vision, and live in their own pristine, elitist bubble. They expect every single person they ever come across to be as skilled and as experienced as they are. They don't understand that there are people out there that are conquering this new content who JUST got their Rank 2 veterans reward this month. It is illogical to assume they everyone will be at the same state at the same time throughout the entire lifespan of the game, and I don't take that kind of thinking seriously.

I'm not saying this is the truth for all elitist, for there are plenty out there who DO understand that people who are just joining the game wants to run the new & exciting content that's out and may not want to run the old stuff, which they don't have to, btw. For some it may take longer for them to learn, but for some it can be extremely easy for them to adapt. It's not about whether they were able to run the old stuff or not, its about if they have to ability to learn the new content from just experiencing the new content, and for a lot of people, this IS the case.

and btw, those kind of people are only the vocal minority. There are way more people out there who understand the plight of the new player, seeing as everyone was new at some point, and had to overcome the same walls they will have to. I'm joyous in that fact.

And my question is where and how if the community tells them to skip all the other ones but the latest ones, it just cant go both ways. Don't tell people do whats relevant and then complain if they dont know how to do it because they skipped everything else to try and get to whats relevant.

4. Same as point 2. No one is ( in this thread at least) is telling them to skip it. If they want to do it, go ahead, its there waiting for you.

[Thayos]

Not disheartening at all, unless you're brand new to the game and completely surprised by its vertical-progression system.

I'm looking forward to finishing an armor/weapon set that takes me through the first half of the expansion leveling.

[Vaer]

The difficultly isnt even comparable otherwise people wouldnt be complaining about my very post. So yea you may see it but the fights are two worlds apart from each other in degree of difficultly for the most part.

You were talking about missing mechanics because people skip 2-4 year old content. You can still see them in current content, they are just more punishing in the EX version (they force you to do them properly) but most of them are the same mechanics and function the exact same with maybe another gimmick applied on top of it.

If you really want a pristine hard way clear, technically the difficulty of clearing a 2.0 ex primal right now is also way lower than was intended when it was current. Echo can give 20%+ bonus after enough wipes. For example, Garuda EX min ilvl is 65 and drops i90.

Ravana story actually lasts longer than Ravana Ex now (it isn't actually possible to unsync it right now), you even skip most of the mechanics in Ex farm parties. I mean some groups have even glitched the fight out by killing it so fast.

[Welsper59]

People are always going to pick the easiest option... the point is for the easiest option to not be so easy that it's not even fun anymore (like hunts)... Melting the boss in 30 seconds is not fun for a lot of people.... that's why people are concerned. Not sure why that's so hard to understand.

As RaijinSupreme said...

Its not hard to understand. We understood it from the beginning.

That point you folks made was pretty clear to most of us. There's a number of things that aren't easy to understand though, given how illogical they are. We have a tool usable by anyone to give themselves the intended level of challenge through ilvl sync, if they so choose to. You folks are pretending it doesn't exist. You're also looking to dictate how people choose to play. You folks are even claiming unsync is literally impossible for people to have fun with. That implication alone is astonishing to have in an MMORPG. You're complaining about players utilizing the gear they earn in ways they may enjoy. In some cases, you're indirectly complaining about players wanting to increase the difficulty/challenge for themselves (such as a lv50 SCH soloing Snowcloak). You're complaining there's no fun to be had because there's no challenge in unsync, even when anyone points out there is challenge to be had. The stupidity on the matter is beyond comprehension.

Your folks' argument isn't difficult to understand. It's you, the person, and your perspectives on the matter, that are extremely difficult to understand. Refusal to acknowledge and accept counterarguments that nullify your views... that's very bottom of the barrel trains of thought. There's obviously no agreement to be had on the matter unless we overlook logic itself, which is not surprising in today's world. You know, for people who seem to want to believe they're thinking about the well being of others (a very small handful of new players), you sure failed miserably by not considering literally everyone else.

[Vivi_Bushido]

You are caught up on this idea that doing older trials makes you better at newer ones. Running Ifrit didn't make me better at Titan. Running Titan made me better at Titan.

I half agree with this.

I agree that running Titan made you better at Titan, but running older things also makes you better at newer trials as well. Take Thordan Extreme and Zurvan Extreme as examples. They both have new mechanics of their own but plenty of recycled mechanics too. Recognizing how to handle those mechanics from previous experiences makes you better at them. Those towers in Thordan? I've seen those before, they were in T13! I should probably handle them the same way since I recognize that. Hmm, that Halbard in Zurvan? Where have I seen that before. That looks a lot like Scrapline from A9! A new player wouldn't recognize that since they never did the old content. That's why Zurvan was SO EASY, all of the mechanics in his fight are things we as players have seen before. Inner AoE attack, Outter AoE attack, Stack behind boss attack, a bait attack, a tether mechanic. These're all things we have done before which made us better at Zurvan.

Older trials do make you better at newer ones because those older trials are an introduction of things to come in the future.

[CGMidlander]

1. You're right. I don't read those posts.

Those kinds of threads are created by toxic, elitist, and impatient people who don't understand that not everyone has the time or the ability to be logged in 24/7 running the same stuff over and over again.

You aren't helping your objectivity by staying in your safe zone and avoiding counter viewpoints.

If your beliefs are based in sound logic, you will have an argument to work with.

[Welsper59]

I half agree with this.

I agree that running Titan made you better at Titan, but running older things also makes you better at newer trials as well. Take Thordan Extreme and Zurvan Extreme as examples. They both have new mechanics of their own but plenty of recycled mechanics too. Recognizing how to handle those mechanics from previous experiences makes you better at them. Those towers in Thordan? I've seen those before, they were in T13! I should probably handle them the same way since I recognize that. Hmm, that Halbard in Zurvan? Where have I seen that before. That looks a lot like Scrapline from A9! A new player wouldn't recognize that since they never did the old content. That's why Zurvan was SO EASY, all of the mechanics in his fight are things we as players have seen before. Inner AoE attack, Outter AoE attack, Stack behind boss attack, a bait attack, a tether mechanic. These're all things we have done before which made us better at Zurvan.

Older trials do make you better at newer ones because those older trials are an introduction of things to come in the future.

While that is true, it's also an unnecessary step to take. The majority of mechanics we see now, including in just simple dungeons, are either the same or somewhat modified versions of what we dealt with in the past. You even stated that. Some of the new ones are leaps and bounds more complex/difficult than the ones in the past. Basically what we had in the past was a snails pace learning curve, whereas what we have today is more of a "norm". There are some exceptions, as there are for anything, but nothing truly noteworthy on the matter. In other words, nothing that would make or break your ability to do future content, if you did not do/learn this old fight.

Again, I'd like to say that it does give you more experience, that much is true. It's just unnecessary because it's obvious that new players can clear new content without doing the old. The improvements one gets for clearing old content as intended, compared to what someone else would have, are so objectively small, that it makes no difference for the person, other than saying "I did <content>". That thought is also assuming said person that did it as intended, knew everything about the fight. How every role experienced it, what happens with every ability the boss has, etc. I'd wager the grand majority of players weren't exposed to that, even when they did it as a group. Hell, many were probably carried through it. Ever just powered your way through mechanics to burn a boss down? If so, you totally did that fight as intended! /sarcasm

If your concern is for learning the mechanics of old content, I'd strongly argue that someone who low-mans it or solos something in a way that makes it difficult, would be more attuned to the fight mechanics than literally anyone that did it as a group. That/those player(s) would have exposure to every role at the same time. They obviously lose out on team work skills, but you're referring only to mechanics here. Team work skills can be strengthened in literally any other group content, so it's a separate and unnecessary thing to concern for in this argument, if you thought of that.

[Zojha]

A new player wouldn't recognize that since they never did the old content.

And if they did, they might recognize the wrong thing - remember that the mechanic markers have not been used consistently in the past. Doom can always be removed via glowing pad, right? No wait, healing full. No wait, dispel. But that red arrow over your head means stack, right? Ah no, it means get away from people. Or does it? What does the green meteor marker from T9 do again in Sohm Al?

I mean, they're getting better at this, but...yeah.

[bswpayton]

As RaijinSupreme said...

That point you folks made was pretty clear to most of us. There's a number of things that aren't easy to understand though, given how illogical they are. We have a tool usable .

As I stated you have replied to things ive said a few times but have said nothiing about what I actually want or Im asking SE for. I am asking for just like we have a normal mood trial roulette, once storm blood comes out to put all the arr and hw primals in a roulette but it be the extreme versions. And no it is not fun, unsync is just a means to an end that has been passed down from vet players to new players, the whole bases of your argument is that you as a vet player wouldnt want to do these primals because they are old.

And I have stated many times when I go into duty finder its vet players that leave because they dont want to deal with new players in these primals, I have never and I que for one at least once a week seen a new player leave an extreme trail its always the older players that leave or the mentors. I dont even think Ive seen a new player leave a dungeon that have the nn leaf on their head it is always the vet players are mentors that leave. So dont claim this is a minority , like I said it isnt even until said new players are introduced to the concept of unsync that players determine that this is the norm. Players that dont no about it just que up just like its any other instance in the game, Ive been in several parties where new players didnt even knwo about unsync.

A lot of players play this game for the story, or just to try a different mmo I dont believe that everyone comes here with the intentions of skipping over everything in the game. So I know older players are jaded from this content I know some have ran it into the group but alot havent and I think that a roulette with some of the best rewards in the game would work alot better than wt. I did all the coil unsync myself and the only thing I got out of that was to see the cut scenes it was 0 fun it was lame we killed everything in like 2 mins and I wasnt even level 60 atm. All Im asking for is the option outside of pf, to get others involved and I dont see how that is a big deal to you because Im not even agaisnt unsync content but Im not gona call it fun outside of soloing something yourself but if you even have two other peoople its pretty boring.


And to your comment to Vivi_Bushido , you just said things were alot more complex in hw well guess what the players coming to storm blood will miss out on that as well and thats exactly what Im sayin is gona be a problem.

[dragonseth07]

As I stated you have replied to things ive said a few times but have said nothiing about what I actually want or Im asking SE for. I am asking for just like we have a normal mood trial roulette, once storm blood comes out to put all the arr and hw primals in a roulette but it be the extreme versions.

As I said before, they are in the Mentor Roulette.