Isn't it a bit disheartening whats on the Horizon to all Hw content?

[RaijinSupreme]

Some gamer you are then. Honestly, you're not alone with that opinion, but I question the motivation of players like yourself. It seems to me that you are not interested in the actual game, only in acquiring the various tchotchkes that the game offers. I love collecting things too, but I also love playing games, and the challenge. It seems though that many players - such as yourself - have become very averse to challenge, or play; and only wish an easy life to collect the 'stuff'.

btw, It's pretty messed up for you to try and belittle someone simply because they don't share the same likes/dislikes & taste in gaming that you do. Not everyone cares about being challenged. People should be able to play the game however they feel without people like you judging them. A lot of people come on here simply for roleplaying/ crafting/ hanging with friends, etc, and that is totally fine with me. They are still no more or less a "gamer" than you simply because you want to run Titan EX synced and they don't.

[Welsper59]

So, you're saying that it's OK to deny new players the chance to play the game as you or other veteran players did, deny the opportunity to learn the fights and dungeons as the veteran players did? If you're suggesting that for new players everything should be unsync'd because no veterans will run them sync'd, then I have to ask why bother running them at all? There is no joy or fun in being pulled through an unsync'd run of anything, nor do you learn anything about your job/class, mechanics or even the lore. How can that be better for new players? Seriously, why even bother running it at all?

If you take that to it's logical extension, why even make players play any content more than 12 months old, since all veterans overgear and unsync it anyway? In fact if you go that far, would it not be better to halt gear and level progression completely and just deliver new content? There is no need for gear progression really. Since no one runs older content anyway, the new gear is only relevant in the new content. The only relevant content (according to many in this 'community') is end-game. Logically speaking then old gear is as dead as old content in that situation. That focus on gear progression renders any older content and gear redundant in record time.

When I joined FFXIV during the phase 3 beta, one of the features I was interested in was level sync because it offered a way in which older content could remain challenging and relevant regardless of level or gear. Now though the deficiencies of that system are clear, and it's even been made optional on so much content. The game has dozens of dungeons and yet how many of them are still considered relevant or challenging? Half of them or less? Probably less. Primals too, it often seems that within the space of time for a single patch, older primals are only considered even partially relevant in EX mode - which was originally an optional mode, much like savage was optional.

I actually find it pretty pathetic that we as a player community are so hostile to the concept of running content as intended, or helping new players experience the game as intended. This is one particular area where the rapid gear progression has laid waste to the game's own content. To the point where many players resent being incentivized to run it for Relic upgrades, and consequently actively dislike older content, and will not run it sync'd. Ironically being able to overgear and unsync early content allowing speed runs over and over has probably done more to damage content and to burn out players than anything else. But, heaven forbid that relics should take time to acquire and upgrade. Of course that too is a victim of progression since the relic upgrade path seems to be designed to allow dedicated players to keep pace with other forms of gearing - at the expense of the content - via speed runs and grinding.

I think that this kind of 'forcing' older content, but allowing it to be facerolled quickly, is really quite unhelpful in the end.

But, without massive changes to progression and level sync, I don't see how any of it can be helped. Of course, if progression and level sync were changed in the ways I imagine, to slow progression and make level sync bite, The backlash from many players would be instant and vitriolic. In many ways it seems that those players have 'won' the day and the game's future is therefore fixed, and ultimately (I think) self defeating.

You seem to be reaching on that one, to prove a point on something that doesn't exist. I have no issues with people wanting to do things as intended. I even encourage that if people really want to. What it comes down to though is how much effort someone is willing to put in to do it. The person I was replying to was arguing a point of discouragement for the new player. Vets leaving party because they saw the green leaf or just leaving for whatever other reason. Am I incorrect to say that, if the imaginary player really wanted to experience something in a specific way, they should use the tools available to them that lets them do it? Am I incorrect in saying that people grow tired of doing old content, and thus, a change of format would be nice? Why motion for people to change their natural perspectives on matters, when you know it'll be met with mass opposition? Do you ever grow bored of something? If you do, then you're essentially complaining about yourself.

What you're wanting is for some fantasy world where real life personalities and habits don't exist. Sad news for you though... those do exist in this game (and every game). People are lazy, negligent, and just overall hostile to each other. People don't choose to think or reflect on what they see, hear, or read, even if their response to it is contradictory to what was said/written. I am not against the idea of players wanting to experience content as intended. What I am against however, are people arguing that every single player, be it new or old, will want or should want to only be allowed to do it that way. The fact the tools exist to do what they want (sync), despite any ease (unsync), further dulls the complaint you and others have on it. Have you ever been in a situation where all you wanted to do was get a clear for something or met anyone in that situation? That you or they could not care less about how it was done? Yeah, that's who unsync was made for. People who don't prioritize doing something as intended, but rather they prioritize simply getting it done.

As for your critique about the impossibility of learning something from doing content not as intended or as the conventional norm goes, you really don't know what you're talking about. I've already pointed out examples of unconventional learning in a different reply here.

]What's the challenge? Think about it like this. Remember the Hunt hype that happened? About how people were zerging the hell out of them (i.e. overpowering the content) and all mobs were dropping like flies, damn to hell any dangerous mechanics. Then when it died down, those people that spent time doing something with less people ended up realizing those mobs had actual mechanics that made them more of a challenge than simply overpowering them. They came to that realization by not dominating the content in large groups. They did it in a format unconventional from the norm. Do you think those new players will realize the danger of mechanics if their group members carry them through all those mechanics because they overpower it, as we do now for practically everything? Of course not. Thus, how challenge is possible when you do things unconventionally.

That's not even including soloing or low-manning things that could be difficult. Cooldown management is very key for some of those tasks, whereas you probably wouldn't have to worry about it in a group with someone healing you. How can you possibly think that someone putting themselves in a situation that is even more difficult solo, won't learn anything about how to play? People don't just do faceroll content when they unsync, FYI.

Edit: BTW that quote of mines I added, that's an opportunity for you to show me, if you choose to reply, your ability to think for yourself. I'll give you a hint, Hunt mobs and unsync'd content are not the only forms of overpowering things we have and is part of why I said what I did there.

[vigioX-Sun]

This is just so weird..the options are just there for those who want or not to.
Want to sync your dungeons?
you can do it to the lowest ILV or max ILV.
You did the 2 dungeons for 3 months farming stones for new gear?....well at least I don't feel like sync them for the fun of it bcuz the fun was gone in the first week since you only farm 2 dungeons for 90+ days.
The point is that the options are there, those who wants them or not... they still there

[Kosmos992k]

As for your critique about the impossibility of learning something from doing content not as intended or as the conventional norm goes, you really don't know what you're talking about. I've already pointed out examples of unconventional learning in a different reply here.

I'm not asking for a fantasy world, I'm asking for the game to stick to what it originally promised - level sync, and I believe that there are good reasons to do so, as I outlined.

That's not even including soloing or low-manning things that could be difficult. Cooldown management is very key for some of those tasks, whereas you probably wouldn't have to worry about it in a group with someone healing you. How can you possibly think that someone putting themselves in a situation that is even more difficult solo, won't learn anything about how to play? People don't just do faceroll content when they unsync, FYI.

Edit: BTW that quote of mines I added, that's an opportunity for you to show me, if you choose to reply, your ability to think for yourself. I'll give you a hint, Hunt mobs and unsync'd content are not the only forms of overpowering things we have and is part of why I said what I did there.

I know all about power creep and over gearing. I'm well aware of the many ways in which you can overgear or over power game mechanics. Putting yourself in a more difficult situation running something solo is a completely different animal to a light party swamping the difficulty of content. It's a completely different style of play. As for people facerolling content when they unsync, that is the most common complaint I read on the forum, right after people whining about content being boring after running it over and over unsync'd while farming - they complain it's too easy and boring.

The ironic thing about what you quote is this. You described the hunt zerg rush as the 'norm' and playing the content as intended (key phrase) as 'unconventional'. Your quote even says "Do you think those new players will realize the danger of mechanics if their group members carry them through all those mechanics because they overpower it, as we do now for practically everything? Of course not." then you say challenge is possible when running things unconventionally. No. The Zerg rush is not running the content as intended, it was not designed around it. You have labelled that as the norm and instead labeled the intended way to play it as 'unconventional. However you are explicitly agreeing with my point that new players will not learn mechanics by zerg rushing content. Dragging players through unsync'd dungeons is no differenet to zerging a hunt mark.

So, were the dungeons more appropriately sync'd what you call 'unconventional' play would be the norm and players would learn - as you yourself indicated. Where as what you call the 'norm' - unsyn'd speed runs for farming - would leave them learning very little. You appear to agree with the point I was making, thank you.

[alimdia]

I'm not quite sure why this thing is 11 pages long, the tool to do the fights synced is there, what else do you want? To force those who don't care about doing garuda ex synced for the 500th time because you don't want to recruit people for your synced run?

[bswpayton]

To many people to reply to so Ill make a separate post I dont know how to put more than one person in quotes yet I havent figured it out yet. But Im failing to see the argument here exactly on what Im asking for is a sync roulette we could have, extreme roulette all hw and arr primals, and a savage roulette binding coil and Alexander. They could give some of the best rewards in the game because it is the hardest content in the game, this would allow people that like rewards to get them, and allow people that are new to the game to have a chance at doing the content.

This is the issue Im seeing on view points I view these extremes as just another instance just something Im quing up for wit the goal of finishing the duty. The thing is everyone here does repeatable content, or maybe not everyone some just do ,the expert roulette and thats it. But alot of people do trail roulette, expert roulette, potd runs of the same floors over and over, level 50, and leveling roulettes. They grind these for scrips are lore whatever the reason, the difference in what Im asking is not that youve done it before its more so, that their is a greater chance of failure in the duty with what Im requesting. I see it from rage quits I have seen how people are , the lack of patience or understanding of other players weaknesses. So that is why this is a problem to people not that its something youve done before anima weapon, grinding scrips all of that makes you do repeatable content.

And I guess this is why Im a mentor , I dont mind failing I dont mind if a player is bad and needs a little help, or if I see that a group is under preforming but if they have the will to win this isnt a loss of time to me. This is simply because I know that I can still learn or that I can still get better so why not give someone else that same chance. This is whats lacking in this game outside of mentors that actually care to help a community based game, I see alot of individualism that people play this game like an rpg and other players are just stepping stones to get from point A to B. I do believe that if nothing is done at all with getting people to join and attempt this kinda content that in the long run we will have a horrible player base and skill gap worse than you guys think. Sure you can skip an expansion and just learn hw stuff like Im sure most people do, but as this game grows and gets bigger you cant expect people to just jump right in and not find it difficult to do the latest content when, they skipped everything before it.

[dragonseth07]

Some gamer you are then. Honestly, you're not alone with that opinion, but I question the motivation of players like yourself. It seems to me that you are not interested in the actual game, only in acquiring the various tchotchkes that the game offers. I love collecting things too, but I also love playing games, and the challenge. It seems though that many players - such as yourself - have become very averse to challenge, or play; and only wish an easy life to collect the 'stuff'.

If the hardest part of beating Ramuh EX (for example) Synced nowadays was beating Ramuh himself, that'd be one thing. But you and I both know that it's not. The real boss of that trial is the collected 7 idiots that the DF gives you for "allies". And there's nothing fun about losing because:

-The co-tank doesn't have Provoke
-One of your DPS is a level 50 Lancer
-The SCH refuses to use Cleric Stance
-A MNK is eating every AoE
-Your NIN is screwing up every mechanic and won't listen to chat

I could go on, but you get the point. When this content was relevant, you did this sort of thing with organized, competent groups. It was fun. It was challenging, but also enjoyable. Exactly like when statics get together to do current content nowadays. Funny that. Now that the content is old, it's challenging and no longer enjoyable, because DF gives you 7 people so incompetent you'd be better off with bots. So, yeah. Skipping it so you can get to the stuff that is both challenging and fun again is definitely a good method.

[bswpayton]

So when u did it the first time I'm guessing it was an instant success one attempt and done. If that's the case well your commended if it's not then ur essintally saying is it was OK for u to learn the fight when u , did but ur unwilling to give someone else the same opportunity.

[dragonseth07]

So when u did it the first time I'm guessing it was an instant success one attempt and done. If that's the case well your commended if it's not then ur essintally saying is it was OK for u to learn the fight when u , did but ur unwilling to give someone else the same opportunity.

Learning is one thing. "Oh, I screwed up this mechanic. I won't do that again." "Oh, I needed to use a cooldown there. Now I know." A group that's actually learning is an entirely different animal, and that's NOT what DF throws at you.

I've done a lot of ARR EX Primals through DF. I spent months trying to get my clear on Ramuh EX. In all those attemps, I had one group that was actually improving over the attempts. One single group. Every other group was full of people just looking to get carried.

Furthermore, there's a big difference between learning a fight and learning how to play the bloody game. If you don't know a fight? That's cool. We can go over it. But, if you've ignored 20 levels of "Get your Job stone", you don't deserve to get carried through an EX Primal.

[Welsper59]

snip

Who's actually complaining about unsync though? I mean logically speaking. What right do they have to dictate how the devs introduced something and how people might want to use it as intended?

It's unfortunate that you actually point out one part of what I was implying, actually stating a part of what I wanted you get to out of my quote, but you then completely omit it as though it has nothing to do with "unsync". You literally stated earlier that there is no fun to be had with unsync. I pointed out there is. You dismiss it as though it has nothing to do with the function. Really picking and choosing facts, aren't you?

You're right about the zerg rush not being the intended method in Hunts, but that was our standard norm. That was the expectation when doing them. I pointed that out to show that when you take out the overpowering element, you come to terms with what was intended. The underlying implication though was that we see that EVERYWHERE. If you do your daily dungeons, you're likely overpowered or your group is. Even if you use the sync function we have, you're still overpowered. How do you know a new player wouldn't be able to get satisfaction out of challenging themselves with unsync? If a player is willing to take a challenge on, such as syncing with a group to experience content, chances are they'll also look to do the same in solo or low-man groups doing the same. The players looking for a challenge, and taking the initiative to do it, are the ones I applaud on the matter. They're quite rare though.

If what you're arguing for is to remove the notion of being stronger than the content, then why have gear to begin with? Why is it so important to stop people from overpowering OLD CONTENT? From preventing things that they've done hundreds of times in the past (in the intended way) from being easier to access (no need for full groups)? Why do you feel it's so important to cater to the very VERY small minority of new players that give a damn about that, and are too lazy to form their own group on it, over every single other player in the game? To burden everyone else.