Naoki Yoshida's Comment in Regard to Jump Potions/Boost Potions

[Roth_Trailfinder]

It jumps only 1 job, but you can purchase multiple to jump up several jobs to 60.

However even though it skips them up, does it allow them to get the first time bonus for old content that they skipped?

From what I understand, they do not have the system set up to permit that. The flag for the 1st Time Bonus is the Cleared flag, either you get the 1st time bonus or it was already cleared.

[thegreatonemal]

@roth Your definition of pay to win is wrong really not trying to get into a semantics argument with you but pay to win is getting a clear and consistent advantage or others by paying money Ie something having a .001% chance of dropping or paying 5 dollars to get said item or the item provides a clear advantage and is only available if you pay for it is pay to win. Can't be done with time two new players one buying the potion and one not gives no consistent advantage because its just a matter of time as they both still have to learn how to play the game and the potion buyer is not a better player than the non in any way.

[Gemina]

It jumps only 1 job, but you can purchase multiple to jump up several jobs to 60.

However even though it skips them up, does it allow them to get the first time bonus for old content that they skipped?

Very likely not, as their dungeon logs will show that they have already cleared it, even though they haven't. Also denies the bonus to the players they group with.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

@roth Your definition of pay to win is wrong really not trying to get into a semantics argument with you but pay to win is getting a clear and consistent advantage or others by paying money Ie something having a .001% chance of dropping or paying 5 dollars to get said item or the item provides a clear advantage and is only available if you pay for it is pay to win. Can't be done with time two new players one buying the potion and one not gives no consistent advantage because its just a matter of time as they both still have to learn how to play the game and the potion buyer is not a better player than the non in any way.

You are the first person I've seen in this thread to add the word "consistent" to the word "advantage". I've seen people say that it is not pay to win for various other reasons, but not this one. But all of them were simply a means to try to limit what "Pay to Win" is in order that these potions not fall under that umbrella. to be fair, I imagine that most of those people are thinking I am being too broad to ensure that they DO fall under that umbrella.

You are entitled to your opinion. It differs from mine. It also appears that our opinions differ from YoshiP, who was worried that it would have the appearance of Pay to Win if the potions are released too soon, as though releasing a jump potion set for level 60, 3.55 completed, i260 gear released NOW would be Pay to Win but released with 4.05 would not be. If its PTW now, it would still be PTW whenever it gets released, whatever the level you get jumped to, whatever expansion you get set before, whatever ilevel gear you get. If its not PTW to release such a set now, then it will never be, regardless of the timing, regardless of the expansion the buyer is set before, regardless of the ilevel gear purchased.

Oh, and FWIW, in any game that consistently has content patched in, new levels of character power added, there can not ever be any consistent advantage purchased through Pay to Win. Eventually, simple character power growth would surpass whatever advantage was purchased, simple game longevity and patches would see to that.

[Gemina]

SE can not and will not retain subscriptions from people who do not want to play the game, Instant-Content-Win potion and Instant-Level-X potion or no. If SE is worried about.

I wanted to mention this in my other post and it slipped past me, but I wouldn't have been able to express it as strongly without what you have mentioned about new players who want to jump, don't really want to play the game. I think this is a very valid point. A lot of people are telling me that subs are needed to keep the game going, but these new players that jump, how likely are they to keep their subs once they get to a stopping point, or a serious grind? What if they still can't play with their friends because the lack the skill to go into the content they like to be in? How many subs will they lose as a result of just putting the potions in the cash shop from those who feel the game has lost its integrity?

Several members of my guild who started after I did, passed me, got to tome grinding, and then left the game with a "promise" that they'll be back. Still waiting on their return after multiple patches. Despite all the things to do in the game, they progressed the MSQ, got their iLv up, beat a couple of big baddies and then bailed. It takes me back to my comments about quality subscibers. If the end result is always an x amount of dedicated players, then what's the point?

[RaijinSupreme]

That you don't care and don't get mad at the fact that after all the grinding you had to do to get to lvl 60 and to get your gear (current jumping potion grants augmented ironworks gear, the new pot will be adjusted most likely to augmented shire) someone who paid with real money gets all that instantly and be exactly where you are on day 1 of the new expansion doesn't mean other people will completely ignore it and not be mad at it. It means all you had to go through can be instantly bought with cash. It's the very definition of pay to win.

That isn't pay to win, for leveling up and gearing up isn't a competition between players. In order for it to be "pay to win", someone actually has to win. In order for someone to "win", someone in turn has to "lose". No one is losing, and no one is progressing further than those who put the work in.

[bardaboo]

No one is losing? Say that to the party that gets stuck with the tank in the first expansion dungeon who just started playing yesterday. And the next party. And the next. And the next. And the next

[RaijinSupreme]

snip

but its not the tank vs. everyone else. the tank isn't winning against the players. There is no competition between them as far as leveling and gearing.

The scenario you suggested is not an example of pay-to-win. That is an example of a player not knowing how to play his job, which is most likely the reason why Yoshi-P already said he would probably not implement the jump potion at the beginning of 4.0.

and lastly, everyone has a first time. If people stop having first times, it means we stopped getting new players, meaning we've peaked, and can only go down from there.

Be happy that people are still having first times, cause it means more people are actually willing to play the game. It only ensures the further existence and consistent support for the game.

New players are a good thing. Embrace them.

[bardaboo]

First times belong in first dungeons, not max lvl where people aren't wanting to have to teach you how to play your class. I understand there is a lot of content to go through, but that shouldn't be our (established player) problem. Jumping people into end game is just going to frustrate the majority of establiahed players.

[bardaboo]

The only way to have pay to win in this game would be giving out Super TT cards or amazing PvP skills/gear on mog station. So literally there is no pay to win in a jump potion. So please don't take an argument to be completely literal. The only type of potion i would be ok with would be either skipping 2.0 or after getting to 3.0 skipping that. I really don't think having completely fresh players at end game is a good idea. Hell even the faster leveling of PoTD is annoying. Lvl 60 players that don't understand how to play their class. This is only going to make it worse.