3.5/4.0 Speculation & Discussion (Spoilers)

[Balipu]

I'm just tired of him after he pulled the same "gonna fight you and run away" trick three times. I just can't take him seriously as as threat. Let him get a noble death and pave the way for more compelling villains. Preferrably ones that are actually villainous, have a more nuanced personality than Nidhogg, and have their own musical themes beside the standard Garlean theme and a remix of Rise of the White Raven. Oh and make sure they have a more direct role in current events (looking at you, Elidibus).

[Theodric]

Eh, I like Regula. That he survived a fight against the Warrior of Light on three separate occasions is a pretty huge deal when you consider just how tiresome the Hydaelyn's Blessing, The Echo and 'Cid's airship' have become as a means of evading any and all meaningful danger and consequences. I, too, want more compelling antagonists (not to be mistaken with 'irredeemable villains') but we're only going to get them if the 'get out of jail for free' plot devices for the Scions/Warrior of Light aren't just recycled over and over.

We also need less 'dead but not really, just kidding' moments (such as with the Sultana and the majority of major Scions) and we need shades of grey where both the antagonists and protagonists are concerned. Having a few outright villains with no redeeming qualities is fine in moderation, of course.

3.0 was already an improvement over 2.0 but if 4.0 moves to be bolder and doesn't resort to 'fake outs' or 'I betrayed you but not really' moments then it'll be even more impressive than 3.0.

[Fenral]

how tiresome the Hydaelyn's Blessing, The Echo and 'Cid's airship' have become as a means of evading any and all meaningful danger and consequences.

Add "ally with no definite purpose after this arc making the ultimate sacrifice" to that list and the game might as well just end.

We also need less 'dead but not really, just kidding' moments

I'm sorta with you, sorta not, on wanting people to die for realsies. I only want people to die if it has some sort of serious impact on the plot, and not because they "chose" it. But at the same time there's nobody I really want or could accept that to happening to, besides Minfilia, and hers was just so mishandled (and had a 'back for the finale' flag set anyway).

Stuff like [redacted] getting killed in FFXV conveniently right after their powers became no longer needed by the plot is the sort of stuff I can't stand. Nobody dies that perfectly.

[Moomba33]

It's interesting how differently people can view the same story. Some of my friends are still annoyed over the fake outs of 2.55 and hoping the story gets darker with more actual deaths while other people I've talked to feel we lost so much in Heavensward that they don't want to see any more major exits anytime soon.
I don't feel strongly about having more protagonist deaths but I do hope we don't have a repeat of 2.55 with fake outs for the sake of drama that don't amount to anything.

I'm not expecting Zenos to be sympathetic or at least not intentionally. I suspect any Garlean allies we find will be working with us because they believe Zenos to be detrimental to Garlemald's interests and we may offer them some help if the Resistance goes too far.

I hope we don't get Lahabrea or Gaius returning and I'd prefer if Regula was dealt with before Stormblood. Recurring villains just make me feel like we're not making any progress.

[Cilia]

It's interesting how differently people can view the same story. Some of my friends are still annoyed over the fake outs of 2.55 and hoping the story gets darker with more actual deaths while other people I've talked to feel we lost so much in Heavensward that they don't want to see any more major exits anytime soon.
I don't feel strongly about having more protagonist deaths but I do hope we don't have a repeat of 2.55 with fake outs for the sake of drama that don't amount to anything.

I'm not expecting Zenos to be sympathetic or at least not intentionally. I suspect any Garlean allies we find will be working with us because they believe Zenos to be detrimental to Garlemald's interests and we may offer them some help if the Resistance goes too far.

I hope we don't get Lahabrea or Gaius returning and I'd prefer if Regula was dealt with before Stormblood. Recurring villains just make me feel like we're not making any progress.

The biggest contention I had with 3.0 was how neatly it wrapped up the Ul'dahn Revolution arc and made everything go back to "business as usual." I don't mind if protagonists die, but don't have fakeout deaths and don't have major things like that have no real consequence. Besides implicitly pushing Ilberd into becoming the Griffin, but that is unsubstantiated speculation as of yet.

I don't think the Garleans were ever intended to be sympathetic at all. The main reason any of them are is because, well... Gaius may have been a power-hungry conquistador, but he had standards for kupo's sake, unlike just about every other named Garlean that's not an expatriate, and had valid criticisms of the city-states' governments. As far as villains go, Gaius had honor and class (until you remember he ordered the Waking Sands raid anyway). Other than that... all we've seen of Garlemald is the stereotypical "evil empire," and while that's overdone and boring to some people I get the feeling that's all they were ever intended to be. Stop trying to force your moral desires onto Garlemald! Just let them be a stereotypical evil empire, for now anyway!

I don't mind recurring villains, but they have to pose a credible threat in the first place and continue to do so. While he posed a legitimate challenge in the first (solo) fight, in our last duel he was an utter pushover (I finished at +90% HP). If you're going to have recurring villains, make them a genuine threat. (And Gaius is almost certainly dead; Lahabrea is ambiguous until the Eye is destroyed but since Elidibus had every opportunity to free him but did not I think it's safe to say even the villains don't really care about his survival any more. Elidibus puts Lahabrea into the same category as Igeyorhm, who we know died, so...)

[Moomba33]

The biggest contention I had with 3.0 was how neatly it wrapped up the Ul'dahn Revolution arc and made everything go back to "business as usual." I don't mind if protagonists die, but don't have fakeout deaths and don't have major things like that have no real consequence. Besides implicitly pushing Ilberd into becoming the Griffin, but that is unsubstantiated speculation as of yet.

I don't think the Garleans were ever intended to be sympathetic at all. The main reason any of them are is because, well... Gaius may have been a power-hungry conquistador, but he had standards for kupo's sake, unlike just about every other named Garlean that's not an expatriate, and had valid criticisms of the city-states' governments. As far as villains go, Gaius had honor and class (until you remember he ordered the Waking Sands raid anyway). Other than that... all we've seen of Garlemald is the stereotypical "evil empire," and while that's overdone and boring to some people I get the feeling that's all they were ever intended to be. Stop trying to force your moral desires onto Garlemald! Just let them be a stereotypical evil empire, for now anyway!

I don't mind recurring villains, but they have to pose a credible threat in the first place and continue to do so. While he posed a legitimate challenge in the first (solo) fight, in our last duel he was an utter pushover (I finished at +90% HP). If you're going to have recurring villains, make them a genuine threat. (And Gaius is almost certainly dead; Lahabrea is ambiguous until the Eye is destroyed but since Elidibus had every opportunity to free him but did not I think it's safe to say even the villains don't really care about his survival any more. Elidibus puts Lahabrea into the same category as Igeyorhm, who we know died, so...)

Yeah the neat wrap up was really underwhelming. It reminds me of FFIV though at least the fake outs there served the practical purpose of shuffling people out of the party. I still find it frustrating as a player since it's basically our emotions being played with for no payoff.

I've never found the Garleans sympathetic personally but that's because I have a passionate hatred of imperialism as a concept. You could tell me they conquered a park bench and I'd be on board for kicking their butts in 4.0 to take it back. From what we've seen so far I get the impression they were meant to be closer to the evil empires of II and VI than the more humanized one of XII but there's room for SE to introduce more grey characters as we move forward.
I do appreciate when characters bring up criticisms of the city states. Y'shtola became my favourite scion when she called out Merlwyb during the Titan storyline. It would be nice to see the city states attempting to improve things like their relations with the beast tribes but realistically I can see those issues persisting through the rest of the game's lifespan to maintain the status quo.

Recurring villains can work for me if they're comedic like Gilgamesh. My problem with serious ones is I can't accept them as an actual threat when they either a) Keep losing and running away or b) win but keep leaving your character alive stupidly due to convenient villain arrogance. So we get a "serious" villain I can't take seriously and that the game won't let me get rid of making me feel like my character isn't accomplishing much at all.
I find it unlikely they'll be back.....but I won't lie. When we first saw the WoDs talking about retrieving the eyes my entire FC sighed and predicted that SE was going to go the route of bringing Lahabrea back. I'm hoping they're just going to try to use the eyes to store aether for their primal or something instead.

[Lauront]

I'm just tired of him after he pulled [...]

Maybe they could stop downplaying Ascians then, by virtue of the moronic WOL plot armour, and put them in a serious instance, rather than boring easy af story mode content.

Just an idea.

They're still fleshing out Regula. Not sure what the rush is or why he is lacking in his current form. Not everything is going to be as eventful as fighting Nidhogg was... and Nidhogg himself had a lot of build-up surrounding him, e.g. when you fought him in the Aery, again plot armour shielded you from his power. Much like it shielded you from Thordan... and a bunch of others. Even in its diminished form.