Pal is not a DPS tank

[aleph_null]

The extra healer dps afforded by pld's extra mitigation is still less than the dps difference between skilled pld and skilled drk.

One thing that hugely improves tanks and healers' dps that the majority of players ignore is doing multiple tank swaps so both tanks' defensive cds are fully utilized, allowing them to stack multiple cds for every tank buster, which makes healing them much easier despite the little/nonexistent tank stance uptime. Everyone seems to be so stuck in the mindset that pld/drk are the main tanks and they should tank the boss as much as possible, and the war only takes the boss when there's a mechanic that requires that (chastening heat, gobslice). The same thing seems to be happening between ast/whm and sch, where people want the sch to dps as much as possible while the ast/whm does so much of the healing, instead of sharing the burden and coordinating buffs/cds to maximize both healers' dps.

[LilLemay]

One thing that hugely improves tanks and healers' dps that the majority of players ignore is doing multiple tank swaps so both tanks' defensive cds are fully utilized, allowing them to stack multiple cds for every tank buster, which makes healing them much easier despite the little/nonexistent tank stance uptime. Everyone seems to be so stuck in the mindset that pld/drk are the main tanks and they should tank the boss as much as possible, and the war only takes the boss when there's a mechanic that requires that (chastening heat, gobslice). The same thing seems to be happening between ast/whm and sch, where people want the sch to dps as much as possible while the ast/whm does so much of the healing, instead of sharing the burden and coordinating buffs/cds to maximize both healers' dps.

This guy gets it

[dragonseth07]

This guy gets it

Yeah, but good luck coordinating in a PUG. In my PUG's, I'm lucky if the other tank even has Provoke.

[Awful]

This guy gets it

I agree with your other points said in the other page I was trying to convey this but 7am posting before work derp lol. He's right though everyone should be in that mind set and understand what kind of burden is placed on each individual person and adapt and push their limits.

And yes the extra mitigation vs skilled pld/drk dps doesn't compare with the extra healer dps was trying to say that but derped.

[Sarcatica]

Tanks and healers DPS optimization only occurs heavily in top speedruns. You are talking about the micro stuff like the amount of heals needed for each tank buster. If you see a12s no1 speedrun, you will know how coordinated the tanks and healers need to be. Just 1 late healing gcd and it's normally a wipe.

An example of optimization is how groups handle aoe for a9s for adds. You are talking about the exact amount of damage needed and where they will come from. There are many individual top players around but speedruns also count great team coordination and planning. You are missing the little details like a12s stasis positioning where melees actually stand much closer to the boss during time stop instead of the usual 2way positioning, another one is how they handle the crystal mechanic and sending in 3 people instead of 4 for timegate.

In the server I am in, there are only 2 teams doing serious speedruns, 1 being my former team. Imagine, 2 out of so mant teams and pugs doing the current hardest content. Says a lot to on how exhausting it is.

This is also why there is no real guide on healers' optimization. Even tanks' optimization is hardly touched. Momo-kun (team disbanded) released his NIN optimization on reddit to touch on his thought process. Most guides so far is just a guideline, barely optimization.

Actually this reminds me of this small optimization I did in Midas a6s. I was using PLD and I had to fetch the mine on Blaster. I used FoF at pull and applied Goring 1 combo earlier than standard. Note that you normally want to align Goring with Trick Attack at opener. However due to our overwhelming DPS, we pushed Blaster to jump even before mine came out. Applying Goring asap and using FoF on pull means that I get the most benefit out of Goring ticks. Mirages afterwards died so quickly that using Goring would be a waste.

[RamothElggur]

SNIP

i honestly have to disagree with that statement.

Yes optimizing is more present in Speedruns but you also do that even if you are not doing speedrun Stuff, to make your life easier etc.

Alot of people use the same old strat they have used in progression becaus they never bothered changing it, which is fine idc if they dont want to do it , but some of the strats to kill a fight are insanely hectic and kind dumb, makign the fight ahrde then it actually is. Simply trying new stuff out to optimize a bit more helps alot in the long term, speedrunner or not.

OFC if u learn a fight "Defense First" so that u see more of the fight but while doing that you already try to optimize, sneaking in extra dps etc. ....

It is always good to try out new stuff / Pushing more DPS as Tank/ Heal, sayign that you are not a speedrunner and u should not do that, saying that is completely wrong imo.

[Sarcatica]

i honestly have to disagree with that statement.

Yes optimizing is more present in Speedruns but you also do that even if you are not doing speedrun Stuff, to make your life easier etc.

Alot of people use the same old strat they have used in progression becaus they never bothered changing it, which is fine idc if they dont want to do it , but some of the strats to kill a fight are insanely hectic and kind dumb, makign the fight ahrde then it actually is. Simply trying new stuff out to optimize a bit more helps alot in the long term, speedrunner or not.

OFC if u learn a fight "Defense First" so that u see more of the fight but while doing that you already try to optimize, sneaking in extra dps etc. ....

It is always good to try out new stuff / Pushing more DPS as Tank/ Heal, sayign that you are not a speedrunner and u should not do that, saying that is completely wrong imo.

Progression and normal farm strats are vastly different from speedrun strats. Speedruns adjust their strats heavily to allow them skip undesirable phases for damage purposes. In a11s, you want to skip the Lapis Lazuli phase to shave time and still able to damage the boss. Now, compare that to normal strat and you find there are many things different. The focus is just different.

[aleph_null]

Yeah, but good luck coordinating in a PUG. In my PUG's, I'm lucky if the other tank even has Provoke.

I should have been more specific, but what I said was mostly about difficult contents (ex trials and savage raids) in which people should have prepared to git gud and optimize.

To be fair I used to be among those ppl who only know how to "off tank" and not care about anything else, it wasn't until a few months after I started playing that I began to look up other jobs' raid utilities (dps buffs, mitigation buffs, healing skills and cds, other tanks' cds). That's why I feel that telling people who raid that they should know about these and optimize their group's run is important.

[Elixirboy]

Hallowed is amazing but there's no situation outside of learning a fight where it's any more useful than holmgang or LD. Which leaves us with two cooldowns that drk has the equivalent of, no ability to put damage down on anything outside of str-based mobs (and at the cost of dps, unlike for drk where reprisal is basically free and delirium is better than a non-DA PS)

Hallowed for the solo Laser X Sword in as11 means the healers can ignore me, instead of healing a DRK/WAR at 1 hp. Any DRK that executes a DA/PS should be shot.

[Chronons]

I dont really understand the need to try and justify PLD among the other tanks? Yes is does less dps than a DRK/WAR, but it should. Lets not forget that it is mechanically the simplest of the three to play. It does have tools to support that the other two tanks lack, but the meta revolves around dps at the moment. Also, it shouldn't be surprising that the the harder classes to play are rewarded by being favorable in content. It would be counter intuitive to have it the other way around. That being said, if you play PLD because you like playing PLD, no other reason is really needed. No reason trumps "I like this one the best" other than in competitive or professional play.