"Return to Ivalice" Stormblood's 24 Man Raid

[loreleidiangelo]

Other than gear scaling, animations, unique gear for feet, character customisation etc. Are you saying that because we have Goblins as an NPC race, that there is no reason that they can't make it a playable race other than "we don't wanna"?

Pretty much, yeah. The bulk of the modeling is done. As I mentioned in the rest of my post, most NPCs in this game actually seem to be created with the character creator as a base. I could make a Thancred, Minfillia, Yda etc. right now just using the current in-game assets we have and the Mogstation hairstyles/gears. In fact, minus the gear, one of my retainers is a Thancred clone. I'm assuming at this point, minus the hairstyle, a player could make a Yugiri using the Au Ra creator, but not sure if anyone's attempted it yet.

EDIT: Good job also choosing the most deliberately non-humanoid race we've probably seen in this game as your example. Do you really think you can accurately compare scaling gear for a Viera to scaling gear for a goblin? By the devs' own ADMISSION, they don't want to implement Viera as playable not because of some sort of player-perceived modeling problem (like you're trying to state), but simply because they don't WANT to. They think they're too similar to Miqo'te and Au Ra...which is fine, but never anywhere have I seen them cite modeling difficulty as the reason Viera won't be implemented.

To be honest, I'd rather they implement something else as well, but I'm also realistic. World of Warcraft barely gets away with racial diversity via race-locked class choices...do you really think this game, where players can be any class that they want with the push of a button, will have any sort of racial diversity outside of "kawaii moe" if they're not forced into it by the game design? Maybe some players would, but I think the devs would roll in a lot more Fantasia cash shop dough if they introduced a third super-cute human-with-animal-ears-and-tail race instead of something like Bangaa.

[Khalithar]

What did you not like about FFXII?

1. The license board. Do I really need to explain that?

2. The combat system. Wasn't a fan of the gambit system, it felt to me like they were trying to make MMO combat but I found it unpleasant and unwieldy, I just couldn't wrap my head around it. Most of the time I just let the npc's do all the work and tried to keep them alive.

3. I didn't like the playable characters. This is purely personal taste but I didn't like them at all. Vaan was VERY annoying, Penelo was just regular annoying, Balthier was every rogue pirate character, Fran was hot but I found her rather dull, Ashe was a resounding "meh," and Basch was alright. As far as villains go I thought Gabranth was fine, I could take or leave the rest.

4. The story. Again, purely personal taste but I didn't find it particularly compelling enough to make me want to keep going. I forget exactly how far I got but it reached the point where, even after paying careful attention to the dialogue, I didn't get any real feeling of any overarching goal or plot. When I lose sight of the main goal or can't seem to find one, I will lose interest in a game very quickly.

[Lambdafish]

snip

wooahh... you took my line of thinking waaaay out of proportion. I never said that Viera was impossible to implement, I'm just bringing your expectations of what is possible down to earth by saying that just because they have implemented them as an NPC doesn't mean that what they have created is in a fit state to become a race (i.e. they would still have to work from the ground up).

Pretty much, yeah. The bulk of the modeling is done. As I mentioned in the rest of my post, most NPCs in this game actually seem to be created with the character creator as a base.

A) Those are NPCs built off of the player character creator, not player characters built off of an NPC creator, there is a huge difference.

B) The reason for this is that all the NPCs you mentioned are playable races (2.x Yugiri was a Mi'qote with a modified tail), at the point you are talking about Viera would not be, and thus the model would be a purely NPC model, not suited for character creation.

Good job also choosing the most deliberately non-humanoid race we've probably seen in this game as your example. Do you really think you can accurately compare scaling gear for a Viera to scaling gear for a goblin? By the devs' own ADMISSION, they don't want to implement Viera as playable not because of some sort of player-perceived modeling problem (like you're trying to state), but simply because they don't WANT to. They think they're too similar to Miqo'te and Au Ra...which is fine, but never anywhere have I seen them cite modeling difficulty as the reason Viera won't be implemented.

Fine... which race do you want? Amaljaa, sahagin, ixal, vanu vanu, mamool ja, quiquirn? Yes they are more beast-like, but they all suffer the same hurdles, next time you play an ivalice game, look at their feet and tell me that there would not need to be heavy modification for gear to fit (and don't say they will just make the feet like a hyur, then its no longer a viera, just a hyur with rabbit ears).

The reason they never cite modelling difficulty is because ALL races have a unique modelling process for their gear. My entire point is that this modelling process is not there for an NPC, and just because viera may be in return to ivalice does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that "oh, they can just make it a playable race now".

but since you mentioned Basch as a controllable character I assume you played the same version.

Basch is playable in both versions (I played the original).

[Chocolys]

<snip>

Ah yeah what you listed were main points of the game so it's clear if you did not like them you did not enjoy the game.

I admit I was kind of annoyed at first with the license board, but after a while I did not mind it. I played the Final Fantasy XII International Zodiac Job System which has an enhanced license board but since you mentioned Basch as a controllable character I assume you played the same version.

How could you not like Penelo!! Just kidding But she was my other favorite character after Fran & Balthier Duo.

As I was saying just before I enjoyed the game overaly, but I've only completed it once unlike FF VII and FVIII, both which I have played many times, so yeah I can't say it was great game but still worth a playthru or two for me

[loreleidiangelo]

wooahh... you took my line of thinking waaaay out of proportion. I never said that Viera was impossible to implement, I'm just bringing your expectations of what is possible down to earth by saying that just because they have implemented them as an NPC doesn't mean that what they have created is in a fit state to become a race (i.e. they would still have to work from the ground up).

No, you were trying to claim that the devs not implementing the race at this point doesn't just boil down to, "they don't wanna". Which, as they've gone on record stating, is precisely the case. You cited goblins as an example of an NPC race that hasn't been implemented because of modeling difficulties, not because the race would just be hugely unpopular to play, and I found that argument fallacious because they are not even remotely similar to our current character models in shape (unlike Viera). I know how Viera feet look, and I'm not arguing that there wouldn't be work involved in creating customizable models from scratch. I pointed out that a lot of the groundwork would be there if they appeared as NPCs for the Ivalice raid, and that since the race is so popular keeping it from the playerbase at that point really would just be because...the devs don't wanna. /shrug

I think in the end, the money will talk on this one. For all that everyone bemoans lack of racial diversity and "cutesy" racial proliferation, pretty much everyone I see still in-game are Miqo, Au Ra, Hyur, or Lalafell.

[Lambdafish]

snip

Again, you are taking my post way out of context. Goblin was a bad example, you are right, it wasn't supposed to be a particularly great example and I could have used anything. My point is that these models have nothing to do with the character creator, its not the gear modelling process that is important to the argument, its the fact that viera would be put through the NPC process that beast tribes etc. go through rather than the process that playable races go through, they are two separate entities that do not cross over naturally (yes you can take the assets, but you still need to build them from the ground up, hence the race would then go through the gear modelling process, and the animation process, which isn't straightforward, and isn't even started after the NPC is created. Its not technical limitations that are preventing this, its the fact that this huge step needs to be done).

My ultimate point is that Viera appearing in the expansion raid has zero impact (i.e. nothing to do with) it becoming a race, and if it appears, it would be just as likely to become a race as right now (unless the devs openly give us new information).

[loreleidiangelo]

Fair enough, though in some ways I disagree. I feel like they wouldn't go through all the hassle of creating the 3D elements just to use them as NPCs for a one-n-done 24-man; it would seem kind of trollish at that point. Maybe Viera will be a 5.0 beast tribe, heh. That seems to be the fate of all the other non-playable NPC races.

[Lambdafish]

Fair enough, though in some ways I disagree. I feel like they wouldn't go through all the hassle of creating the 3D elements just to use them as NPCs for a one-n-done 24-man; it would seem kind of trollish at that point. Maybe Viera will be a 5.0 beast tribe, heh. That seems to be the fate of all the other non-playable NPC races.

They could be taken from zodiac age and modified for all we know (like several enemy models), but yeah 5.0 beast tribe would be completely valid if they were NPCs in the 24man (like I said, same process).

[Yasuhiro]

Crystal Tower - FF3 with references to FF1, FF10, FF13

Crystal Tower didn't have anything related to 10 unless you're talking about Valefor which is a reference to the monster from the Crystal Tower in name only (As it's just Dark Dragon from XI renamed to being Valefor)
All the monsters in that dungeon are named after monsters from Final Fantasy III
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/V...al_Fantasy_III)


Don't really remember anything from FF13 showing up in Crystal Tower tho.

[Khalithar]

Snip

I never played the whatever version you said, Basch was playable in the original. It's fine if you enjoyed the game, I'm not the sort of person to say "I didn't like it therefore it's a bad game." If you like it, more power to you, it's just a game that isn't for me. But I stand by what I said, Ivalice to me will always be War of the Lions, Ramza, the Lucavi, Altima, and no non-humans. :P