WHM new skill ideas!

[Ghishlain]

No need to nerf AST when it's on par with SCH. Just fix WHM's MP costs, it's the outlier in healer balance at the moment.

That would work too, as long as the MP values are normalized, either by reduction in the WHM kit or increase in the AST kit. It doesn't matter to me which but it does show a gross imbalanace at face value if they leave it as is.

[Assirra]

healing potency of AST was fine all the time. the increased potency leads to nothing more than more healer dps uptime. the problem was the utility AST offered was not good enough at release to compensate for the lower healing / dps uptime. today we have 2 healers in raid, one almost all the time in cleric, one most time healing, some cleric uptime. but why? because tight dps checks have made it necessary in alex savage. so they had to buff AST healing for more dps uptime. that's a DD problem, not a healer problem, but instead of fixing the DD problem they have destroyed the healer meta, because they have followed the community with their healer-dps obsession.

AST was not bad because of lower healing. AST was bad because lower healing leads to lower party-dps.
so... should they really balance healers around dps? but that's on you community: you have established the healer-dps meta.

They were bad for numerous things actually.
Low healing (they had lower potency on their standard heals), cards barely did anything, and all around a worse healing toolkit compared to the other 2.
The issue was not raids or savage or something. The issue was that even in "standard" content AST was struggling with the damage where you cannot have someone else working harder cause you have worse healing. hence they got buffed.

[Rennies]

That would work too, as long as the MP values are normalized, either by reduction in the WHM kit or increase in the AST kit. It doesn't matter to me which but it does show a gross imbalanace at face value if they leave it as is.

By reducing WHM's MP costs they can replace those MP cost reduction traits with more fun stuff. Everyone wins.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

That is what they started with and it failed spectaculary.
A healer is worth nothing if he/she can't heal right.

At the same time, their buffs were trash as well.
Currently the buffs are so strong it has to power to outright trivialize dps checks. This is the perfect time to reduce their healing spells once again.

That way it would be a healer that specializes in buffs but lacks in healing power, and the WHM would be the healing specialist but lacking in buffs.
You decide if you want to have a easier time surviving, or more attack power but less security. It's a fair trade off.

There is one problem though...if WHM is going to be a healer that has base higher potency than other healers, that means every healer from here on will have to heal less than WHM, and I can see that being a problem.

Sigh, honestly I'm ready for them to just give WHM something special and stop with this "pure healer" mess.

[technole]

They were bad for numerous things actually.
Low healing (they had lower potency on their standard heals), cards barely did anything, and all around a worse healing toolkit compared to the other 2.
The issue was not raids or savage or something. The issue was that even in "standard" content AST was struggling with the damage where you cannot have someone else working harder cause you have worse healing. hence they got buffed.

Diurnal was fine was after the first Gordias buff to bring pure healing potencies up, and it hadn't changed ever since. Gear certainly helped over time though with having higher MP pools. Aether and aggro management got buffed for Midas and at that point it was already ahead of White Mage in MP refresh. It's been Noct, card buff QoL since then.

So from a healing standpoint it had been fine for awhile in Diurnal. I still remember players like myself and Staris getting slammed in this forum by White Mages telling us how of a crutch we were in Gordias Savage. That our SCHs was probably doing more work, etc. Of course they hadn't had the AST experience on the floor themselves and we were clearing A1S-A3S weekly at the time. Melee appreciated spire cards in A2S, and A3S any damage increase with balance and arrow was like a godsend. Staris went on to be our server first A4S and they were AST/SCH.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

I still remember players like myself and Staris getting slammed in this forum by White Mages telling us how of a crutch we were in Gordias Savage.

Ugh, I can't help but think the mass shaming on AST was one of the reasons it was buffed so significantly.
SE wasn't going to let their job sit and be made a permanent laughing stock. It was fine after buffs but the stigma was so strong on it from release they had to over buff it just so people can take AST seriously.

And now here we are, sigh.

[Shurrikhan]

How about just making something more unique and useful out of what we have already?

I'm not sure how four 20% chance of free/half-cost combo spell procs ever satisfied any checklist for "unique job identity". At best WHM has its longer (but non-self-extendable) HoT, more frequent power CD, and an extra direct healing ability, but in effect that just leaves it as the "healer-est" of healers, rather than having anything of its own. Its elements are left as flavor text, and its only unique mechanics are the same RNG we tend to complain about in AST, but with greater setup frequently required.

[Ghishlain]

Diurnal was fine was after the first Gordias buff to bring pure healing potencies up, and it hadn't changed ever since. Gear certainly helped over time though with having higher MP pools. Aether and aggro management got buffed for Midas and at that point it was already ahead of White Mage in MP refresh. It's been Noct, card buff QoL since then.

So from a healing standpoint it had been fine for awhile in Diurnal. I still remember players like myself and Staris getting slammed in this forum by White Mages telling us how of a crutch we were in Gordias Savage. That our SCHs was probably doing more work, etc. Of course they hadn't had the AST experience on the floor themselves and we were clearing A1S-A3S weekly at the time. Melee appreciated spire cards in A2S, and A3S any damage increase with balance and arrow was like a godsend. Staris went on to be our server first A4S and they were AST/SCH.

I will admit I was one of those people in the 3.0 era that indicated AST, was pretty weak compared to their WHM within the same boundaries. Not to say it won't work but it certainly felt like a lot more effort than necessary too.

With the 3.07 I changed my tune since I felt that put AST in a good spot. I did feel it was weaker than WHM but not weak to the point where it would be a hindrance like it was at 3.0 inception. I've been fairly disappointed in how S-E's been heavy handing the AST buffs since then. While enmity was certainly a concern I never felt it was justified to give AST the MP tools it has to this day. Ah well, that's how the cookie crumbles too.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

That is what they started with and it failed spectaculary.
A healer is worth nothing if he/she can't heal right.

As others have said, Astro was ill-favoured because its support structure was garbage at release. Nonetheless, the devs need to come up with some sort of niche, otherwise we'll either see White Mage fade into obscurity or all the healers homogenized to basically do the same thing except with slightly varied effects.

No need to nerf AST when it's on par with SCH. Just fix WHM's MP costs, it's the outlier in healer balance at the moment.

Ironically, that could actually bump Scholar out of the meta. Astro's buffs are far too valuable to lose and the only reason White Mage doesn't out parse Scholar is MP management efficiency or lack thereof. If that's rectified, then what reason would people have not to default to WHM/AST?

[Yasuhiro]

Would FFXIV break the mold of having 4th tier magic spells ie; Curaja/CURE IV?
as far as I'm aware 4th tier is the highest and there is no 5th tier unless you count things like Full Cure as being a Cure V. (I think there's already a spell like that under a different name in XIV tho haven't played White Mage in ages)