Hooking a WoW veteran

[Pintsized]

Tell him the rotations are much more complex than in WoW

Er, no, they're not, by any measure! And the term 'molasses' applies perfectly to FFXIV's combat.

[Arkazon]

I appreciate all the extra thoughts. I know that leveling up fast in Palace of the Dead results in people not learning their classes organically, but that's not my worry here. Better to have him level quickly and then have to learn his tool kit than to level so slow that he gives up and goes elsewhere. That's my fear: as noted by another poster, so many games are so bland in the beginning with promises of being compelling and fun late in the game. Since there's no way that I know of to make FFXIV compelling at the level 20 stage, my hope was to use PotD to show him the future and perhaps level him swiftly to *get* to that future.

But then last night in a dungeon, a Paladin noted that SCH is boring as sin to play and that excitement abounds only when things go horribly wrong and you have to flail. So that ... set us back a bit. =/ I might suggest MNK to him as a more dynamic class, but he much prefers utility/healing classes over DPS.

[Mitysolde]

Another small piece of advice would be to join an fc. It can make the game a bit more social and xp buffs are available to help get your friend closer to the upper levels a little quicker.

[ZioSerpe]

I used to be a WoW veteran like you, then I took an Hydaelyn to the knee.

I'm not sure it helps because changing from WoW to FF coincided with a change of lifestyle on my part, I became a father and I had less time to invest in the endgame grind that is mandatory in WoW if you want to get any fun shit done.
But from my experience FF is a much more enjoyable game to play at a more relaxed pace, at any point of your journey you have options for horizontal progression, stuff you can do if you like the rewards or just the feeling of it, but it is not forced upon you to do so.
By this I don't mean the game doesn't cater to hardcores, I "dun sunwell" and currently the endgame raiding is completed by about the same % of people that completed sunwell and that's what a lot of self proclaimed hard core raiders consider the pinnacle of raiding in WoW (it wasn't, it was the pinnacle of having enough shamans/leatherworkers, my guild had them, most other guilds didn't... ULDUAR 4 LAYF).

[SDaemon]

But then last night in a dungeon, a Paladin noted that SCH is boring as sin to play and that excitement abounds only when things go horribly wrong and you have to flail.

SCH boring as sin!? O.o

[Shurrikhan]

If he's coming straight from WoW, the leveling process won't seem utterly neglected, but it will likely feel long and barren instead. Barring max efficiency, there are also fewer options available and many more roadblocks.

As for the combat, it will be much slower to reach a rate, rhythm, or complexity most MMO players find enjoyable than WoW will, though at max level it may be significantly faster and more varied than many WoW specs.

I'd gradually progress through MSQ and side-quests until he has a couple jobs unlocked, then play around with Deep Dungeon (Palace of the Dead) to get a greater sense of those and other jobs. I'd also recommend grabbing the Heavensward expansion early on, especially if on any sort of sale.

[Belhi]

Er, no, they're not, by any measure! And the term 'molasses' applies perfectly to FFXIV's combat.

Combat is slower but frankly I would argue the rotations are much more complex than WoW's. Most WoW classes use maybe 5-6 skills max in a standard rotation and even then in a lot of cases its repetition of the same skill with procs and buff/cd/utility skills woven in. I certainly don't remember any WoW job with anything like balancing positional with things like Blood of the Dragon.

[ZioSerpe]

Combat is slower but frankly I would argue the rotations are much more complex than WoW's. Most WoW classes use maybe 5-6 skills max in a standard rotation and even then in a lot of cases its repetition of the same skill with procs and buff/cd/utility skills woven in. I certainly don't remember any WoW job with anything like balancing positional with things like Blood of the Dragon.

They are not more complex they are just more cumbersome, the FFXIV rotations are mostly static while WoW's are more reactive (via procs and rotation altering cooldowns)

[Belhi]

They are not more complex they are just more cumbersome, the FFXIV rotations are mostly static while WoW's are more reactive (via procs and rotation altering cooldowns)

They are still pretty simple. I'm not saying WoW is bad necessarily, its just faster paced but simpler. FF14 goes for a slower more strategic playstyle. More stuff to juggle but more time to juggle it in.

I generally don't say either is better since both are going for a different feel. Beyond that its pretty much personal preference.

[HPDelron]

Er, no, they're not, by any measure! And the term 'molasses' applies perfectly to FFXIV's combat.

So I haven't played WoW since wrath, but I recall rotations being simpler than what's in FF14 currently. Those friends I have that do still play WoW seem to say rotations have become less complex, not more (trimming of abilities etc..)

Taking a cursory look here at the current rotations here for WoW classes:

http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/class-guides

They seem to on average have fewer buttons to push that FF14 rotations. I'd say at least on a surface level FF14 does have an edge in complexity, if not a particularly large one. If you want to discount combos this edge probably mostly goes away.

What seems to be the bigger difference is the strictness of the rotations. there seem to be relatively few things as unforgiving as dropping Enochian, for example.

Combined with the fact mechanics seem harsher in FF14, I think it does leave room for a fair argument that if not strictly more "Complex" FF14 rotations are more demanding, particularly taken in context of a progression encounter.