Can Red Mage start at level 30?

[Naunet]

No counter to the rest of my post then? Interesting.

[SDaemon]

No counter to the rest of my post then? Interesting.

You are trying to make an argument about alts now. That isn't what we were talking about. So yes, interesting.

[basketofseals]

There are plenty of examples of MMOs that require you to level to unlock new classes/jobs, if you would use google. I even offered to search for more for you if you felt you needed more examples.

EDIT:
Eden Eternal
Skyforge
Tree of Saviors

I don't have knowledge of any of these games. Are they successful? What's their leveling system/expected time to reach the thresholds for new classes? Are they end game focused?

[AlphaFox]

I know Eden Eternal and Skyforge seem to be doing well though Skyforge (unless I am mistaken or they changed it) required you to grind weekly materials, skill point orbs and such to work your way around a FFX like grid to unlock the job, so you had free range of the map once you picked your starter. Eden Eternal was more like Tactics, in that you needed X level of this class to unlock this class, or you need these two at this level to unlock. Plus you had to start over at level 1 but you had a Job level and you had your character level, so you wouldn't be starting exactly back at level 1, you would have some bonuses to your stats.

Skyforge, I think took me 2-3 weeks of playing from start to unlock my first class Reaper, but I also bypassed 1 other that I could have gotten but that would have used my resources which again, are capped weekly. Though upside they had places where you can test the job and even some missions let you run as that class without it being unlocked.

[SDaemon]

snip

Of those examples the only one I've played is Skyforge where you basically play as developing Gods. The classes, and everything else really, are unlocked through the Ascension Atlas through prestige. To start from you choose from 3 classes, but you unlock others by progressing through the Atlas. Once you've reached a certain point on one of these 3 "starter" classes you unlock the upper tier. Think of it as similar to FFX's sphere grid in terms of what the atlas offers. For comparisons sake you would play as Black Mage (Lulu) until you progressed to the point where you could play and progress as a White Mage (Yuna). The game gets very grindy at the end with prestige which is the games way of "leveling", since you can essentially go on and on. There are raids and such that you can do to build prestige, get gear etc.

Ex. If you want to play as a Monk, you are going to have to put in a good chunk of your time progressing through the ascension atlas to unlock the advanced jobs. I haven't played in months, but it took me about a day of play time (24hrs played) to get Necromancer.

Similar to XIV though you can swap between classes any time you are not in combat.

that would have used my resources which again, are capped weekly.

Sparks vs Tomes...hmm. I think I prefer Tomes Though maybe gathering nodes and scripts would be a better comparison.

[Naunet]

You are trying to make an argument about alts now. That isn't what we were talking about. So yes, interesting.

No, I'm pointing out the very important differences between your examples and FFXIV. Does SE plan to provide a free character boost with every purchase of the game? Does SE plan to make it so that, instead of having to level up to 50 and do the ARR story on every character in order to access HW and SB jobs, you only have to have done it on one character on the account?

If not, then your examples are not comparable.

[SDaemon]

No, I'm pointing out the very important differences between your examples and FFXIV. Does SE plan to provide a free character boost with every purchase of the game? Does SE plan to make it so that, instead of having to level up to 50 and do the ARR story on every character in order to access HW and SB jobs, you only have to have done it on one character on the account?

If not, then your examples are not comparable.

At the moment I can't even tell what you are trying to argue anymore other than you are focusing on alts and WoW's level skip bundle. Are we talking about new jobs in regards to making alts now?

[Naunet]

It's not that hard to follow. I suspect you're trying to claim I'm being confusing in an effort to devalue my point.

- I assert that it's an unnecessary burden and not particularly fun for new and old players alike to have jobs locked away behind a large grind wall.
- You claim that other MMOs have done similar things and point out WoW and TERA as examples.
- I (and another person) point out that both only require you to have leveled ONCE, which then makes those classes available to any character you wish to make, while FFXIV requires that you level through ARR on every single character you ever make in order to access those jobs. We also point out that the impact on new players in those games is negligible at best, because the purchase of Legion comes with a level 90 character boost, which basically means the "must have a level 70 to make a demon hunter" requirement may as well not exist.
- I pointed these out because it displays that FFXIV's situation is unique and damages the player experience in ways the other examples do not.
- Now you can't follow the conversation for some reason..?

[Lexia]

The job system kind of follows a modified version of XI's system. You had to level 30 in order to do a "advanced job" and it was per character not per account and the grind in that game was way more then you will ever find in XIV.

[basketofseals]

Of those examples the only one I've played is Skyforge where you basically play as developing Gods. The classes, and everything else really, are unlocked through the Ascension Atlas through prestige. To start from you choose from 3 classes, but you unlock others by progressing through the Atlas. Once you've reached a certain point on one of these 3 "starter" classes you unlock the upper tier. Think of it as similar to FFX's sphere grid in terms of what the atlas offers. For comparisons sake you would play as Black Mage (Lulu) until you progressed to the point where you could play and progress as a White Mage (Yuna). The game gets very grindy at the end with prestige which is the games way of "leveling", since you can essentially go on and on. There are raids and such that you can do to build prestige, get gear etc.

Ex. If you want to play as a Monk, you are going to have to put in a good chunk of your time progressing through the ascension atlas to unlock the advanced jobs. I haven't played in months, but it took me about a day of play time (24hrs played) to get Necromancer.

Similar to XIV though you can swap between classes any time you are not in combat.

I'm curious as to how the focus is. Developing your power as a god sounds very interesting, but I don't think it's quite the same as FFXIV. In this game, players are pretty focused on the level cap experience, so that reaching that job and beginning to develop their skills as soon as possible is important. Forgive me if I'm wrong in my assumptions, but Skyforge sounds like a game based on continuous development though leveling. FFXIV on the other hand is end game focused with an emphasis on gear. The job changing we can do is simply a convenience rather than the focus. Aside from a few cross class skills, which may be eliminated entirely in the expansion, you don't really gain any sort of advantage from leveling other jobs.

It's not that hard to follow. I suspect you're trying to claim I'm being confusing in an effort to devalue my point.

- I assert that it's an unnecessary burden and not particularly fun for new and old players alike to have jobs locked away behind a large grind wall.
- You claim that other MMOs have done similar things and point out WoW and TERA as examples.
- I (and another person) point out that both only require you to have leveled ONCE, which then makes those classes available to any character you wish to make, while FFXIV requires that you level through ARR on every single character you ever make in order to access those jobs. We also point out that the impact on new players in those games is negligible at best, because the purchase of Legion comes with a level 90 character boost, which basically means the "must have a level 70 to make a demon hunter" requirement may as well not exist.
- I pointed these out because it displays that FFXIV's situation is unique and damages the player experience in ways the other examples do not.
- Now you can't follow the conversation for some reason..?

Her argument was that there's a precedent for MMOs employing such a system to a degree of success, and while the WoW and TERA comparison has been disproven, she's provided other examples to which another poster has confirmed they do exist and work within other games. You're focusing on one thing we've moved on from.