Naoki Yoshida's Comment in Regard to Jump Potions/Boost Potions

[Lambdafish]

Oh, I see now. So that's why. You want to deny this emerging reality due to your feelings of perceived cheapening/loss of accomplishment.

So, you are in the "I had to grind countless hours to level to 50, and don't want some newbie to be able to buy a drink and do the same in an instant" camp, right?

Not at all, I do see the benefits of the jump potion, Yoshi P, and lots of other people have already pointed them out. I can see that it would allow new players (and if HW is anything to go by, there will be a lot of new players) to get straight into the expansion and experience the 2017 game that they bought (XIV:Stormblood) and get into endgame at the same time as current players while it is relevant (highlighting the problem with content redundancy for a new player offhand). I disagree about playing with friends, but that is because I want to see more content like PotD which allows lower level and higher level players alike to play together on current content (I praised the hell out of that fact in 3.3).

You seem to think that my views are selfish, and that I feel like I am losing out and it is hurting my epeen. I don't care about my own progress, my levelling process was months and months ago, and I have put far more hours into the game than I care to admit, something which I don't expect a newbie to do. MY issue is that of the games health, I care about this game and I want it to succeed in all areas, and to me the jump potion represents a band aid fix to cover up a problem rather than solve it. We all knew that it would come eventually, but it is sad that it is this early into the games life (and despite what people might say, the levelling potion is still a bad idea given how quick levelling is - and it's not about cheaping my experience, it is about doing content and getting used to your role one skill at a time, which is an experience that is wholey unnecessary to remove).

Also, please do take into account that many newbies will likely not want either potion: either for being too pricey, or b'cos they want to experience the game the way it was meant to be played.

The jump potion also means that the story issues will never be fixed for these players I saw it said before in this thread that any complaints about gating will now be redirected to the cash shop (which will be true), meaning the devs never need to worry about gating or bloating, because hey, you can just skip all that.

Boosted characters, right out of the gate, are the norm now in a lot of present day MMOs...

XIV is slightly different to other MMOs in that it's entire content is centered around the story. This is uncommon in an MMO and presents new challenges. I don't know many MMOs that specifically have a story skip potion, and the future I see for that is sad. Here is why this band aid fix is bad: We are currently entering 4.0, there is a mountain to climb in regards to having to beat 2.0-2.55, then having to also do 3.0-3.55, that, however, is possible. Image though in 7.0, you will have to do 2.x, 3.x, 4.x, 5.x and 6.x. "But Lambdafish" you say, "they can use a jump potion, thats the point of it", except that isn't the point. Come 7.0 the jump potion will be mandatory (and still a premium price), because the devs do not need to go back and fix the gating formula because their solution was jump potion. What this does is it means that most, if not all new players will not know the story, and won't know their garlean from their ascian. This causes problems from a narrative level and even world building, as a new problem will be having to explain to all new players what the hell is going on in the story (while also making it so new players don't feel that things are being reiterated).

This is the inexorable truth: you don't have to like it, but you do have to live with it.

There is truth to what you say yes, we are both right in different ways, and just living with it doesn't solve problems. You might be ok with the jump potion but what I want is the best solution, and I feel that the jump potion is not the right way to handle this problem yet, and the root of the problem needs to be fixed instead of just band aiding it and ignoring it.


Having lived in Eorzea, and taken this journey with the dev team for 4 years, I know that the devs can be extremely short sighted. Remember housing, remember diadem, remember 3.0 launch with half the jobs being unplayable. The dev team means well but their eyes are firmly rooted on the present rather than the future (I like to call this reactive game design as opposed to proactive game design), and I fear that being hasty about the jump potion will have consequences for the future of the game.

[Cedane]

Your prediction is absurdity. SE can fix it with what they have on hand. It does not need to be a mad rush to Stormblood. Again: they don't need to rush. Build Stormblood in such a way that it does NOT perpetuate the ARR/HW issues and then gradually chip away at the problems in the older content.

I like pugs.

That is about as serious as I can take your arguments and I'll get back to you when you've calmed down just a tad.

Snip

Seriously, let it be. You can't argue with her. I'd say let it go and we can agree that pugs are awesome. You will argue for days until the thread gets locked. I have seen your points and some I agree with myself, VTXShiva!

There are others making good rational arguments for pro and anti jump to debate on this. Speaking of~

SUPER SNIP

You have made good points so far in a lot of the anti stuff but I do want to ask. You said you can see pro-jump so since I know why your against, could you lost your pro stuff for it too?

I mean I see you are against it but I do want to see your other perspective too. If it's okay!

If you have already, could you quote it?

[Lambdafish]

You have made good points so far in a lot of the anti stuff but I do want to ask. You said you can see pro-jump so since I know why your against, could you lost your pro stuff for it too?

I mean I see you are against it but I do want to see your other perspective too. If it's okay!

If you have already, could you quote it?

well alright, I haven't really said much in the for camp as I didn't want people to misinterpret that I am for it (and the original post and many many posts in the 115 pages have done so for me).

The most I have said on the subject can be read in the first paragraph of the snip, and then basically add all of what Yoshi P wrote in the first post because I agree with most of it (except playing with friends, quit your damn gating in the expansion (like PotD) and people will be able to play with friends). My ultimate pro view is that the jump potion is a necessary evil (but not yet necessary). I was going to edit the post further but it is best put here that the jump potion is an inevitability, come 5.0 or 6.0, the mountain that I am talking about will be too great to climb and there will be no denying that level skipping and certain story skipping will be necessary.

The problem I have with that right now is that the reason that we are here so early is due to design failures when it comes to constructing the MSQ and endgame. Jump potions are not a solution to the content gating, they are mearly a sidestep around the problem, and I feel strongly that for the health of the game, the devs need to address the core issues of the MSQ BEFORE implementing the jump potion (otherwise they will need to deal with a mess come 7.0 or so). Given the devs track record, I am really worried for the future on this issue. We had problems in 2014 with the HW gating, and they have decided to double the gating for SB, which is completely backwards given the feedback. It is something that people need to think far more carefully about than "oh cool, now my friends can play"

[Cedane]

well alright, I haven't really said much in the for camp as I didn't want people to misinterpret that I am for it (and the original post and many many posts in the 115 pages have done so for me).

The most I have said on the subject can be read in the first paragraph of the snip, and then basically add all of what Yoshi P wrote in the first post because I agree with most of it (except playing with friends, quit your damn gating in the expansion (like PotD) and people will be able to play with friends). My ultimate pro view is that the jump potion is a necessary evil (but not yet necessary). I was going to edit the post further but it is best put here that the jump potion is an inevitability, come 5.0 or 6.0, the mountain that I am talking about will be too great to climb and there will be no denying that level skipping and certain story skipping will be necessary.

The problem I have with that right now is that the reason that we are here so early is due to design failures when it comes to constructing the MSQ and endgame. Jump potions are not a solution to the content gating, they are mearly a sidestep around the problem, and I feel strongly that for the health of the game, the devs need to address the core issues of the MSQ BEFORE implementing the jump potion (otherwise they will need to deal with a mess come 7.0 or so). Given the devs track record, I am really worried for the future on this issue. We had problems in 2014 with the HW gating, and they have decided to double the gating for SB, which is completely backwards given the feedback. It is something that people need to think far more carefully about than "oh cool, now my friends can play"

No worries. I had a good idea you were against it.

I do agree though. While the quest and filler is a bit silly now though at the time of their release, it helped brought the story along, it would take a lot of resources to manage. I think that is why the jump potion option is there; I think its the easier, less time consuming option for the developers.

While I am pro-jump, I recognize that there are current problems still there. I don't think there is much they can do without people getting upset but even with the jump potions, its a tiny fix but one I don't mind.

I mean, I can see myself using it for the jobs or have an alt skip through to get closer without having to grind through the entire story all over again through some content that is very hard to gather team members for unless your a tank.

I can see myself using it for Warrior. I don't want to grind all that I have so far since I find its low levels to be boring and don't mourn the loss of missing the story of it. Dark Knight? Heck no! I refuse to skip that! I want to see the story, I want to grind through and get to the end. Thats a class I want to experience so, no jump.

So its a mix for me.

[VTXShiva]

We had problems in 2014 with the HW gating, and they have decided to double the gating for SB, which is completely backwards given the feedback.

Serious question, do you have a source for this? I don't think I've seen or heard anything to substantiate this claim. How are they doubling the gating for SB?

[Lambdafish]

Serious question, do you have a source for this? I don't think I've seen or heard anything to substantiate this claim. How are they doubling the gating for SB?

Because in HW you needed to beat 2.0-2.55, and in SB you need to beat 2.0-2.55 AND 3.0-3.55? Do I really need to source that?

[Aramina]

Because in HW you needed to beat 2.0-2.55, and in SB you need to beat 2.0-2.55 AND 3.0-3.55? Do I really need to source that?

Yeah you do since the last I have read (which was near HW launch so granted it has been a while) was that the next expansion was going to fork off 2.55 not 3.55.

edit: The jump potions may be instead of this, IDK, just I have never seen anything saying definitively that you would have to complete the entirety of HW as well.

[Lambdafish]

Yeah you do since the last I have read (which was near HW launch so granted it has been a while) was that the next expansion was going to fork off 2.55 not 3.55.

Considering the events of 3.4 I highly doubt that (spoilers below):

The griffin has nidhoggs eyes, we now have Yda and Papalymo back, and events have moved on drastically from HW. Hell, the 3.5 dungeon has us crossing Baelsars wall, which is the equivilent of the steps of faith

Cedane provided source as Vegas fanfest 2016. On top of this, the original post of this thread says:

Upon using the “Adventuring Records of Heavensward,” the player character will have completed the main quest up to the final quest in patch 3.5 part 2, as well as accepting the initial main quest for Stormblood.

So it's pretty safe to say that 3.5 part 2 is required to enter the expansion.




So as I said, double the gating despite feedback not to, jump potion won't fix decisions like that.

[Cedane]

Yeah you do since the last I have read (which was near HW launch so granted it has been a while) was that the next expansion was going to fork off 2.55 not 3.55.

I am going by memory and can't link it if you didn't pay for it. So forgive me or quote the transcript to correct me if I'm wrong.

BUT in the Las Vegas Fanfest stream I watched where the expansion was announced, it was said specifically you would need to beat 3.5 in order to get to Stormblood so his statement is correct in a way.

3.5 might be in two parts or it may be another. But, yeah.

[Aramina]

I am going by memory and can't link it if you didn't pay for it. So forgive me or quote the transcript to correct me if I'm wrong.

BUT in the Las Vegas Fanfest stream I watched where the expansion was announced, it was said specifically you would need to beat 3.5 in order to get to Stormblood so his statement is correct in a way.

3.5 might be in two parts or it may be another. But, yeah.

Fair enough, I will take you at your word. I wasn't disputing what you said at all as I have taken a couple of breaks (and one was during LV fanfest) so it's just one of those things I missed.