Novice Network Woes

[LineageRazor]

Assuming that you are not the sole individual who believes that this person is abusive, continue to report them, and encourage other players to report as well. When one individual gets enough reports, the GMs will take action. Make sure that the individuals doing the reporting emphasize that they are not the only ones with an issue with this person, and that other players have reported them as well.

Investigating a single report of harassment takes work. The GM has to review the dialog, and make a determination whether abuse was actually occurring, or the offended party was being oversensitive, etc, etc. A GM that makes a wrong call too often in such situations can find themselves out of a job - and rather then take the risk, they err on the side of caution. But when an individual gets a LOT of reports against them, though, the chances that it's just one player with a bruised ego lashing out become much smaller.

Also, if you are a sprout, and a Mentor is repeatedly kicking you without cause, that'd be a good thing to bring up with the GM, as well. They're going to be a lot more attentive if a newer player is being harassed. If you're another Mentor, though, I could see them seeing it as a player-to-player dispute, and would be less likely to intervene.

[Madepossible]

I think that person shouldn't be a mentor at all. Secondly I do want to help out but that ugly crown icon just didn't look good so I said: no ty, always happy to help new players but the crown icon is just..

[Kosmos992k]

It's funny, we just had a forum on how the Network should be monitored, basically half the players who visit the website believe the Network should be grounds for players to discuss what they want how they want, in hopes of establishing friendships, and the other half believed the Network should be used for training purposes only and be monitored by mentors to ensure a comfortable learning environment.

Even in that forum the OP contacted a GM and got a half thought out reply, that the Network is like every other channel. Which we know it isn't due to the restrictions to join the channel as a mentor.

Yet here we are, the similarities between your post and the old one are one in the same, and people still don't have any idea on what constitutes as acceptable communication in the Network.

Indeed. Unfortunately, many people in the world, and by extension our community, have no idea how to be respectful, civil or mature. It's become painfully obvious that to some people the word 'mature' means you get to swear, indulge in so called 'locker room' talk, and all manner of borderline aggressive and abusive speech. Ironically of course, that is immature.

It's extremely disappointing to me that SE set up the Novice Network with great ideals in place, and put rules and guidelines down, yet will not - apparently - do anything to enforce them.


Personally, I think that people should start reporting abusive mentors for their rude and insulting conduct, and or harassment of any kind. Mentors who abuse or harass others should be permanently striped of their 'title' and have any thing that came through that status revoked. Some might call that draconian, but if SE wants to send a message to ensure better self mod\eration of the Novice Network, that's what needs to happen - IMHO.

Jet nailed it.

Basically, SE doesn't know what they want out of it. They tell us expectations, but GMs say those don't apply as it is a general chat. Mentors also aren't really punished for being jerks.

I personally avoid the NN for these very reasons.

In my FC, we apply the very simple "don't be a jerk" rule, and if someone is a jerk, they get warned and asked to clean up their act. If they ignore warnings, they get booted. Fortunately, we have not had to do that in two years, and I hope that we never have to again. If people cannot obey the simple principle of "don't be a jerk", then they should bear the consequences of their behavior.

[Dustytome]

If the person is being abusive towards someone in any chat channel, report them for harassment. Regardless of the channel, that's what it is and that's how you should report it. Don't make it about the NN at all when you report it.

[Kosmos992k]

You got a comment on your blog that I agree with. You could make a linkshell with more mentors that don't want to deal with the person and invite new players to it. This has been done before according to a post I read and was successful, so it's not a far fetched idea that newbyes would want to join.
You got me curious though, what exactly happened? Is it allowed on forums to post pics with names blurred out? How do we know it isn't you guys being strange if even the GM isn't approving?

Most people have a pretty good compass as to what is right/wrong in terms of how you treat people. Suggesting that someone try to create their own alternative to the Novice Network sounds so smart, but completely ignores the issue. Honestly I think the suggestion is almost entirely unworkable, as many established players (aka Mentors) may have no spare LS slots, and even if they did, why would they join some unknown LS like that?

The issue at hand is the behavior of players that SE has given special status to. SE needs to take action to curtail any abuse of that position. Right now, in the eyes of some, mentors behaving badly, devalue all mentors and the Novice network - a lack of action and guidance from SE makes things worse, not better, because it is actually showing tacit approval of that conduct. Anytime someone feels that they have tacit approval for their conduct, from those in authority, they feel emboldened to go further. SE needs to take a hand in this and clear it up for everyone - IMHO of course.

[Naelynne]

The mentorship position has been in desperate need of an overhaul for some time. Many players attain the status not with the intention of helping newer or less experienced players, but for want of a crown icon and the exclusive mount for mentors.

Players who are reported for offenses like harassment, sexual harassment, or otherwise should not be allowed to be mentors if the GMs find those reports are valid. There was a WHM in my Static who quit the game because two mentors -- a non pve crown and a crafter crown -- were publicly selling "sex" with him, an underage child.

It's disappointing that Square Enix's in-game GMs deem it okay to keep people like that in positions like mentorship, because it not only creates a horrible image for mentors, it also deters people from seeking their help and enjoying the game. Sometimes I wish the forum GMs and in-game GMs would swap..

Having a newer system in place to ensure the quality of mentors would ultimately be beneficial not only to mentors as a whole but to the players as well.

Until such a time, however, do not be entirely discouraged from mentorship. Without good mentors, only those who are undesirable will remain. One good mentor in a sea of sludge outshines bad experiences. Hold firm and keep at it. We'll be rooting for you.

[Meeka19]

Most people have a pretty good compass as to what is right/wrong in terms of how you treat people. Suggesting that someone try to create their own alternative to the Novice Network sounds so smart, but completely ignores the issue. Honestly I think the suggestion is almost entirely unworkable, as many established players (aka Mentors) may have no spare LS slots, and even if they did, why would they join some unknown LS like that?

The issue at hand is the behavior of players that SE has given special status to. SE needs to take action to curtail any abuse of that position. Right now, in the eyes of some, mentors behaving badly, devalue all mentors and the Novice network - a lack of action and guidance from SE makes things worse, not better, because it is actually showing tacit approval of that conduct. Anytime someone feels that they have tacit approval for their conduct, from those in authority, they feel emboldened to go further. SE needs to take a hand in this and clear it up for everyone - IMHO of course.

It's not tacit approval. Her blog states that when she kicked the mentor a GM pulled them in this game's special area for gm to player talk about appropriate behavior. In other words she was warned for kicking the mentor. So if you consider the moderating team will take actions against the mentor when they literally deemed it abusive for them to have been kicked well...
This is exactly why I concluded she can't rely on the moderating team to reach her goal, whether her statement is unbiased or not.

[MirielleLavandre]

Hihi - I'm actually on your server ^^ Have you tried talking with the FC leader of whatever FC the person belongs to? I know that many FC leaders don't like their members making them look bad, especially if they are actively recruiting and/or like to have a decent reputation on the server (I miss the FFXI days of having a 'server reputation' where a few or one major thing could get you /blisted by the whole server...). Maybe their leader doesn't know how bad this player is making their FC look or, sadly, maybe he/she doesn't care. Worst case that person is the actual leader of their own FC. But anyways, worth a try! I know a lot of people on Faerie who just haven't signed up for the NN or Mentor for the reasons you say -- not worth it and more of a 'show off' thing rather than helping Sad, really, as it is a good at the core.

It makes me wonder, and I'll have to ask my JPN friends, about how the Mentor and NN is on the Japanese client. I would wager, given the cultural differences between Western and Eastern players at times, that it may be different (I didn't say better -- I'm well aware of how people can be named/shamed on 4chan and such).

[Jetstream_Fox]

It's not tacit approval. Her blog states that when she kicked the mentor a GM pulled them in this game's special area for gm to player talk about appropriate behavior. In other words she was warned for kicking the mentor. So if you consider the moderating team will take actions against the mentor when they literally deemed it abusive for them to have been kicked well...
This is exactly why I concluded she can't rely on the moderating team to reach her goal, whether her statement is unbiased or not.

It's not she can't rely on the GMs, it's more the fact the GMs view the channel as if it's a general chat channel. Which isn't the case as it has requirements for players to enter. The GMs are nearly useless in this regard since all they ever do is suggest block/report, that's all GMs can do, given their lack of actual power.

[mazetic]

I've read through the comments left here while I was asleep. Most of you are suggesting that everyone that has problems with him report them, and we do. It doesn't seem to affect anything. The GMs don't seem to have any power to do anything about it, if they're actually investigating the numerous claims of harassment laid against them. Someone was legitimately walking another player through filing a harassment report against them in novice network yesterday after this person kicked them and was responded to with a threatening tell. They seem to somehow avoid all consequences, no matter how many times they're reported.

Also, @Mirielle, I would do that, if it were a viable option. Unfortunately, this person is the leader of their own FC. From what I had heard (which could very well be hearsay, so I take it with a grain of salt) they had incidents with former FCs where they had stolen things and have been run off.