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  1. #271
    Player
    Ghishlain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,168
    Character
    Ghishlain Pyrial
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivxkobe View Post
    Thunda still making posts with little content outside of "dpsing as a healer is boring so make it so healers can't."

    Still haven't seen a decent argument against DPSing as a healer yet from them.
    I feel the only decent argument that anyone can bring up at this juncture is that S-E has stated in a few interviews that healer DPS isn't required to clear content when at the appropriate item level. With that being said, this doesn't mean the developer did not intend for healers to DPS either. The fact they haven't disabled Cleric Stance in any PvE party content implies to me that they are happy with giving healers the option to DPS or not to DPS.

    Whether you (not you specifically, just every healer / player in the playerbase as a whole) actually enjoy or despise the current iteration of the healer toolkit is a matter of opinion and should not be spoken as "facts from the development team". Ultimately it's up to the development team to decide if they want to change the current healing meta or if they're happy with how it is in its current incarnation. All we can do on these forums are speak our opinions (hopefully in a well thought out manner) so the devs can take it as feed back to see how they wish to tweak kits in the future.
    (6)

  2. #272
    Player
    VanilleFang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,655
    Character
    Estellise Valesti
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 70
    Exactly Ghishlain. Just because SE doesn't include healer damage when calculating dps checks, does not mean the expect healers to do 0 damage. Saying "it's not something we take into account" is not the same as "it's not intended"
    (5)

  3. #273
    Player
    Fricca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    120
    Character
    Amai Couteau
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 70
    Getting rid of cleric stance in the only content that I do (raids) will make the game too boring for me.
    (2)
    Always by your side. . .

  4. #274
    Player
    Bourne_Endeavor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    5,377
    Character
    Cassandra Solidor
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH View Post
    That would be nice, especially if they extended the penalty for stepping into CS. Perhaps a 20-30 second time span penalty as a cross classed skill, 15(or no CD, but resource cost) with trait for WHM? 5 seconds is waaaaaaaaaaay too generous. Warrior gets a 10 second lock out, PLD and DRK have to sacrifice resources. All healers get a pretty gentle swat on the wrists when it comes to sacrificing their primary role, while tanks have to sacrifice a fair bit more.
    I hope you fancy dungeon queues upwards of 20-30 minutes. Without Cleric Stance, you'll see a lot of people stop playing Healers. Even those who don't necessarily like DPSing still want CS available because content just isn't hard enough outside Savage.
    (6)

  5. #275
    Player
    Thunda_Cat_SMASH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,105
    Character
    Sylvana Tenebri
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 79
    In easy mode content, both sch and AST can afford 20 seconds plus of cleric stance uptime consistantly, and WHM would have no CD associated with cleric stance at all, besides a small resource cost. You'll forgive me if I don't buy that for even a split second. As far as Savage? Planning exists for a reason, so I legitimately see no issue coming from that side either when one of the healers still spends the majority of the instance sitting pretty in CS while the actual healer handles all the hard work. At worst? You might need to communicate more.
    (0)
    Last edited by Thunda_Cat_SMASH; 12-07-2016 at 06:04 AM.

  6. #276
    Player
    Cynfael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    2,164
    Character
    Sacrilege Moonshadow
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH View Post
    Planning exists for a reason, so I legitimately see no issue coming from that side either when one of the healers still spends the majority of the instance sitting pretty in CS while the actual healer handles all the hard work.
    ...so we should implement a longer CD on Cleric Stance and forcibly roll everyone back to this meta? I think it's widely understood now that the concept of main healer vs. DPS off-healer is suboptimal compared to having both healers work together to create DPS windows for each other.

    Besides, since when was healing "hard work?" Maybe during progression while few or none of the party members have a firm grasp on mechanics and timing, but let's not dramatize the plight of this "actual healer," who in many cases got to sit outside of CS and do nothing but babysit health bars and maybe call out mechanics. Having both healers be coordinated is a much better way to play, and imposing further restrictions on CS for any healer job certainly wouldn't improve anyone's ability to strategize or, I don't know, enjoy the game.

    Thank god SE has selective hearing when it comes to fielding feedback from the community.
    (5)

  7. #277
    Player
    Bourne_Endeavor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    5,377
    Character
    Cassandra Solidor
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH View Post
    In easy mode content, both sch and AST can afford 20 seconds plus of cleric stance uptime consistantly, and WHM would have no CD associated with cleric stance at all, besides a small resource cost. You'll forgive me if I don't buy that for even a split second. As far as Savage? Planning exists for a reason, so I legitimately see no issue coming from that side either when one of the healers still spends the majority of the instance sitting pretty in CS while the actual healer handles all the hard work. At worst? You might need to communicate more.
    They can afford it, however they will spend a large portion of those 20 seconds literally doing nothing. Even when I pull the entirety of Xelphatol, my SCH friend only has to heal me occasionally. Dark Arts + Abyssal Drain does more than enough. Putting a cooldown like what you're suggesting would essentially force her to front load as much damage as possible because once she clicks off Cleric Stance, she won't be able to go back into it again. At that point, she may as well /sit since I won't be taking nearly enough damage for her to do anything. For Savage, one healer would basically be in Cleric Stance the entire fight. My static's WHM pulls almost 900 DPS in A9S. There's nothing for her to do most of the time. In your scenario, she would be better off healing with Cleric Stance on if our AST needed help than to loss 20 seconds of DPS time.

    Like I said, all this would accomplish is significantly reducing the amount of people willing to play healers. If you want to encourage more healing necessity, content itself need to do more damage. The reason people get so miffed over healers refusing to DPS in dungeons is due to them being piss easy. I mean, a Scholar can tank Xelphatol on their own.
    (1)

  8. #278
    Player
    Thunda_Cat_SMASH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,105
    Character
    Sylvana Tenebri
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 79

    People need to have their hand held when it comes to reading comprehension!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor View Post
    They can afford it, however they will spend a large portion of those 20 seconds literally doing nothing.
    If you're sitting in your dps stance for more than one second not attacking, you legitimately have much, much MUCH bigger issues with your play style than a measly 20 second cool down. How exactly would you be doing nothing when the cleric stance cool down starts as soon as you enter it, not leave it? Are you, a healer, legitimately admitting you have no idea how your own skill works?

    Cleric stances CD would still start when you enter it, not leave it. Once the cd's up, you pop out, do whatever healing you need to do, then immediately hop back in. How is such a simple concept so impossible to grasp? Especially since it's already been like this. There has never been a cd associated with going from stanceless-stanced, only stanced-stanceless, ever, in this game. I can't see a reason for the cooldown to not be extended.
    (0)
    Last edited by Thunda_Cat_SMASH; 12-08-2016 at 01:08 PM.

  9. #279
    Player
    Bourne_Endeavor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    5,377
    Character
    Cassandra Solidor
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH View Post
    If you're sitting in your dps stance for more than one second not attacking, you legitimately have much, much MUCH bigger issues with your play style than a measly 20 second cool down. How exactly would you be doing nothing when the cleric stance cool down starts as soon as you enter it, not leave it? Are you, a healer, legitimately admitting you have no idea how your own skill works?

    Cleric stances CD would still start when you enter it, not leave it. Once the cd's up, you pop out, do whatever healing you need to do, then immediately hop back in. How is such a simple concept so impossible to grasp? Especially since it's already been like this. There has never been a cd associated with going from stanceless-stanced, only stanced-stanceless, ever, in this game. I can't see a reason for the cooldown to not be extended.
    And if you only needed to help the main healer for one specific mechanic, you've effectively lost 15+ seconds of DPS. Hence doing nothing. FFXIV works under predictable, scripted burst damage and non-consequential auto attacks otherwise. Anything the main healer cannot mitigate themselves, they require only split second assistance. Your purposal essentially forces the off healer to give up a large portion of their DPS for little to no gain. To offer an example. The AST in my static frequently tells our WHM to DPS and only asks for her help during certain mechanics, when solo healing proves too difficult or unreliable. If Cleric Stance had a cooldown, said WHM would have to turn it off, then basically stand around being useless until the cooldown wore off. Granted, she could still attack, but we all know how big a loss doing anything as a healer while in the wrong stance is. I dance frequently whenever I play healer. With a cooldown, I'd get pretty bored in dungeons having to stand around after healing the tank-- just waiting on Cleric Stance again.

    The reason is simple. You're forcing people to do something unnecessarily just to justify not having to DPS yourself.
    (0)
    Last edited by Bourne_Endeavor; 12-08-2016 at 05:48 PM.

  10. #280
    Player
    Thunda_Cat_SMASH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    2,105
    Character
    Sylvana Tenebri
    World
    Malboro
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 79
    ...So, why can you not pop out of cs, heal, and then go back to dpsing with a 20 second cool down to exit cs? I have no idea what you're even complaining about. There is no stance in the entirety of the game that has a cool down associated with entering it, only exiting it. Do we even play the same game? Seriously. I'm saying potato, and you're arguing onion. You're arguing a problem that doesn't even exist! Enter cleric stance, 20 sec CD during which you cannot exit it, at all. Exit cleric stance, can enter it again as soon as you desire.
    (0)
    Last edited by Thunda_Cat_SMASH; 12-08-2016 at 06:54 PM.

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