Conception Lore

[Rocl]

FFXI actually had snippets of dialogue that implied that mixed-race breeding DID happen, but that the child was always the same race as the mother, which would have been a tidy solution to the issue.

Just like my Pokemon games!

[treuhavik]

Just like my Pokemon games!

Bad Rocl!

...I too have nothing to add to this discussion.

[Kyran-Varlsen]

Fantasy settings tend to by-pass real world biological issues with the mating of separate species just because Dungeons and Dragons + Lord of the Rings had half-elves. Lord of the Rings went in depth on the subject matter and the various "outcomes," but in Dungeons and Dragons it's a "well they are there" sort of thing.

I preferred the Pillars of Eternity route with lore specifying that the races are different species and therefore incompatible for mating purposes. It made sense and it tied up loose ends. This should be the default, and if you're ever going to introduce half-breeds then this should be thought out ahead of time. Especially with a setting that has as much sexual proclivity as Final Fantasy XIV, because I don't remember escorting courtesans to their clients in World of Warcraft. The Elder Scrolls series took care of this issue with a small paper written by a scientist called Notes on Racial Phylogeny. FFXIV should do something similar.

[Cilia]

It's generally considered an implicit rule that humans (Hyur) can interbreed with just about any fantasy race for... pretty obvious reasons I shouldn't need to explain. As long as they can be fairly identified as mammals, anyway.

For the record, while half-elves are the most common half-breed races in fiction thanks to them showing up in both D&D and The Lord of the Rings, half-orcs are about as common in the former and there's even the odd half-dwarf. There's even freaking half-dragons, man! If it's sapient, human shaped and close enough in size (or can assume a human form), and has a [splat] the humans (or human analogues) can probably have children with it. (Hell, there's a racist insult against Highlander Hyur involving telling them their mothers are Sea Wolf Roegadyn! Which, to speculate, could be true in some cases! Maybe!)

The rest is... well, up for debate. Lalafell seem unlikely given... physiology. I won't delve into the anatomical spiel again unless explicitly asked.

[Kyran-Varlsen]

I think it is up for debate if the default in any given fantasy setting is "separate species so not compatible" or "looks human so is compatible." I didn't mention half-orcs and others because of my 1000 character limit, which for new posters is egregious.

So based on evidence and insults, it seems Hyur may be compatible with Roegadyn as well as Elezan. Certainly besides size differences it can be said that the three are otherwise pretty similar in all other respects. There is a creepy Lalafell fetish among a few taller Eorzeans which I find unsettling for obvious reasons. Otherwise the only questions remaining would be Hyur comptability with Miqo'te and Au Ra as, unlike with Reogadyn and Elezan, there are more substantial differences between those groups. Both Miqo'te and Au Ra have tails and other non-human features which have no direct correlation to the Hyur body. So I would posit that a half-breed born of a Hyur/Miqo'te/Au Ra union would be less likely.

I also find it odd that there are so many fantasy settings where this type of issue keeps cropping up. If there are elves, then humans will find a way I suppose. Someone will find a way...

[Jpec07]

I think it is up for debate if the default in any given fantasy setting is "separate species so not compatible" or "looks human so is compatible." I didn't mention half-orcs and others because of my 1000 character limit, which for new posters is egregious.

You can actually get around that if you edit your post after the fact. It's a relic from when they were developing ARR--some of the threads got nasty.

So based on evidence and insults, it seems Hyur may be compatible with Roegadyn as well as Elezan. Certainly besides size differences it can be said that the three are otherwise pretty similar in all other respects. There is a creepy Lalafell fetish among a few taller Eorzeans which I find unsettling for obvious reasons. Otherwise the only questions remaining would be Hyur comptability with Miqo'te and Au Ra as, unlike with Reogadyn and Elezan, there are more substantial differences between those groups. Both Miqo'te and Au Ra have tails and other non-human features which have no direct correlation to the Hyur body. So I would posit that a half-breed born of a Hyur/Miqo'te/Au Ra union would be less likely.

Allow me to delve into biology/anatomy/physiology here for a moment. I'll try to keep this to what you'd hear in a high school biology/anatomy class. We can assume fairly easily that all of the humanoid races in the game are mammals, because all of the females in some fashion have breasts, and presumably nurse their young (with the only exception possibly being the Lalafel - though they do exhibit sexual attitudes, as highlighted in this thread, and we can assume that Lalafel women at least have nipples--else why would they wear tops on their small clothes and swimsuits?).

It comes down to a question of whether the races come from different evolutionary lines, or if they are closely-enough related to conceive, and for their offspring to be viable. If the races are genetically similar enough, and their means of conception, pregnancy, and parturition are compatible, then they should be able to viably breed.

As regards conception, the only three races that might have difficulty are Lalafel, Miqo'te, and Au Ra. The difficulty with Lalafel, as I stated above, is that they don't seem to have breasts with mammary glands, and so might be too evolutionarily different from the other races for offspring to be viable. They might be able to conceive, but the size restriction might prevent a biologically female Lalafel from being able to carry a multi-species fetus to term. The stout nature of their bodies suggests that baby Lalafel would be extremely small. A biologically male Lalafel could theoretically impregnate one of the other races with viable offspring, but there still remains the question of fetal viability.

With Miqo'te, it really depends on whether they came from the Hyur evolutionary path or whether they evolved from a different cat-like race--in other words, how feline are they? Female felines are induced ovulators, which means their bodies release ova during intercourse due to protrusions on the male's genitals (which is why cats have litters with often extremely varied offspring). If biologically female Miqo'te are also induced ovulators, then they would not be able to conceive by another race without some form of mechanical/magical assistance. Provided that, though, they could likely carry multi-species offspring to term (this would also suggest that Miqo'te could more easily bear multiple offspring per pregnancy, but to my knowledge we haven't seen lore on this either way). This would also explain why Miqo'te courtesans seem so common, because unprotected intercourse with a member of another species would rarely result in pregnancy.

The Au Ra are really the only odd eggs here--pun intended. With Au Ra, it depends on how reptilian they truly are. If they lay eggs, there is little chance that they could successfully breed with any of the other species (regardless of if it's a male or female Au Ra involved). If they give live birth, however, then even if they possess a cloaca instead of the typical humanoid urogenital system, they could likely conceive and carry a viable fetus to term.

I don't imagine Roegadyn, Hyur, or Elezen would have too much difficulty conceiving or bearing fetuses to term, but again, it all depends on anatomy, physiology, and genetics. I don't believe we've encountered pregnant NPCs before, either, so we don't know how it works.

I also find it odd that there are so many fantasy settings where this type of issue keeps cropping up. If there are elves, then humans will find a way I suppose. Someone will find a way...

[Kyran-Varlsen]

Yes, I was alluding to that last saying.

The reason I did not bring up evolutionary connections was that I did not know how it would be affected by a world with magic, gods and magitek. I mean, the Miqo'te and Au Ra look very human - who is to say that they were not descended from humans who were altered by some magical phenomena to possess the traits of a cat or dragon? Or the possible product of Allagan splicing experiments - those people did make a moon to hold Bahamut after all so we can't rule out their ability to affect life as well. Magic, magic related phenomena and magic based technology act as veritable distortions of common realities by their very nature.

In short, because of the magical variables of the setting, we can only speculate as to the actual boundaries and limitations while it is up to the developers to set the rules.


Off-Topic:

Also, I imagine Miqo'te courtesans and dancers are more common because, well, they are sexy cat people. If you saw a human courtesan or dancer your first thought might be to feel sorry that she (or he) is in such a dismal occupation. With Miq'ote you know at the back of your mind that they are fantasy characters and so can be sexualized without feeling guilty or conflicted. While human women being forced into prostitution is alluded to it is not as blatant as with Miqo'te women who are regularly shoved into skimpy outfits and then go strutting about in cutscenes for our male/lesbian viewing pleasure. Also the developers probably had no spare time to make human dancers and so we have the same Miqo'te woman dancing all over Ul'dah. That said, there are plenty of allusions to human prostitution and female human prostitutes can be found at the Golden Bazaar with a nearby male human npc complaining about catching the rot from them.

Sorry for that rant and that it ended with crotch rot. But this does show that Miqo'te can't just sleep around willy-nilly without some risk.

[LineageRazor]

The difficulty with Lalafel, as I stated above, is that they don't seem to have breasts with mammary glands, and so might be too evolutionarily different from the other races for offspring to be viable.

I'd say that the fact Lalafel women don't have breasts is a very poor indicator of whether they lactate or not. Many (in fact, almost all) mammals lactate from nipples that are pretty much flush with their torsos. The way that human breasts protrude from the torso the way that they do is actually a very unusual evolutionary development, and there's been a fair amount of scientific study on the topic of why they developed that way. (My favorite theory is that humans developed to be a semi-aquatic species, which helps to explain our lack of body hair, as well; ancient humans would spend a lot of time in rivers and shallow lakes to avoid predators, and the fatty breasts located high on the torso helped mothers to nurse their young while mostly submerged. But I digress.) Lack of visible breasts is not a good measure for whether a species has mammary glands, and I think it's fairly certain that Lalafel are as mammalian as any of the other races.

Other biological factors, size especially, could make Lalafel cross-breeds unlikely, though, this is certainly true!

As for Mi'qote and Au Ra, I take the fact that they are counted among the "spoken" races (e.g., not Beastmen) to indicate that there's a deeper commonality among them than simple outward appearance. I think that they are all the same species, and simply show a great deal of genetic diversity, similar to how chihuahuas and timber wolves are both Canis Lupis, and cabbage and broccoli are both Brassica Oleracea. Basically, they may have tails and horns/ears, but they're still humans with bits that resemble parts from other animals, rather than non-humans that happen to look predominantly human. I'd say that all aspects of Mi'qote and Au Ra should be considered "human unless directly stated otherwise" - so unless the game specifically says that Au Ra lay eggs, I think it's pretty unlikely to be true! (Not to mention the can of worms you open by referring to Au Ra as reptiles in the first place, when there seems to be a raging debate as to whether they are dragons or demons - do demons lay eggs???)

Also, I imagine Miqo'te courtesans and dancers are more common because, well, they are sexy cat people.

This is more of a meta explanation - choosing a "less human" race because it's less controversial to objectify a clearly-fantastical race (and, on the other end of the spectrum, also because they appeal to a significantly large demographic due to being more exotic than ordinary human women) explains why the producers of the game did it, but does not really contribute to in-game lore: What Eorzean reasons do Mi'qote have for gravitating to that profession?

And, to be fair, it may not even be the case that this is true. Aside from the all-Mi'qote dancers on the Ruby Road Exchange in Ul'dah, there seems to be a pretty even mixture of races. All kinds of women are in the employ of Gegeruju - even a Lalafel is among the dancers on the docks near Hidden Falls. In the Gold Saucer, while the scantily-clad hosteses may not, strictly speaking, be courtesans, they're certainly there to be eye candy - and also include a mix of all races.

[Kyran-Varlsen]

As for Mi'qote and Au Ra, I take the fact that they are counted among the "spoken" races (e.g., not Beastmen) to indicate that there's a deeper commonality among them than simple outward appearance. I think that they are all the same species, and simply show a great deal of genetic diversity, similar to how chihuahuas and timber wolves are both Canis Lupis, and cabbage and broccoli are both Brassica Oleracea. Basically, they may have tails and horns/ears, but they're still humans with bits thatresemble parts from other animals, rather than non-humans that happen to look predominantly human. I'd say that all aspects of Mi'qote and Au Ra should be considered "human unless directly stated otherwise" - so unless the game specifically says that Au Ra lay eggs, I think it's pretty unlikely to be true! (Not to mention the can of worms you open by referring to Au Ra as reptiles in the first place, when there seems to be a raging debate as to whether they are dragons or demons - do demons lay eggs???)

I agree with your assessment that Au Ra are clearly mammals and likely don't lay eggs (all platypus analogies aside). That said, a common evolutionary point for all the Spoken races would certainly solve the quandary of why interbreeding is possible among some of them. Though the possible creation by gods or magical experimentation may be just as likely in a fantastical setting.

And, to be fair, it may not even be the case that this is true. Aside from the all-Mi'qote dancers on the Ruby Road Exchange in Ul'dah, there seems to be a pretty even mixture of races. All kinds of women are in the employ of Gegeruju - even a Lalafel is among the dancers on the docks near Hidden Falls. In the Gold Saucer, while the scantily-clad hosteses may not, strictly speaking, be courtesans, they're certainly there to be eye candy - and also include a mix of all races.

The Gold Saucer came much later in the game's development so I would factor that the developers had more time to pay attention to such details as opposed to just copy-pasting the same Miqo'te. As for the employ of Master Gegeruju I did not notice any Lalafel dancers among his employees so I may have to check back later. And sorry for the meta-explanation, I'll try to stick to lore based speculation hence-forth.

[LineageRazor]

As for the employ of Master Gegeruju I did not notice any Lalafel dancers among his employees so I may have to check back later. And sorry for the meta-explanation, I'll try to stick to lore based speculation hence-forth.

Honestly, given that Gegeruju is a Lalafell himself, I'm a bit surprised that there aren't MORE Lalafel gals in his employ. I guess he's got a fetish for other races? But, yeah, there's definitely a Lala dancer among the NPCs on the Hidden Falls docks. I became well acquainted with all of them, during the time I spent trying to catch that damn Bombardfish! XD

And no need to apologize. Even if it doesn't precisely qualify as "lore", the meta stuff is still interesting and worth talking about!