Tomes vs random drops

[NolLacnala]

Both are junk. Random plus token like ex primals best!

[Dzian]

Question for anyone who favors RNG-only dungeon drops: would you also favor random experience gains? Like, instead of gaining experience for each kill based on the level of the mob, you randomly gain experience each time you do anything, at a very low rate. Essentially, using FFXI's skillup system for experience. Where you can do a leve and maybe you'd gain a full level, or maybe you'd gain absolutely nothing. Does that sound appealing?

Because that's the same concept as RNG-only drops. It's also the original class experience system in 1.0. A system that was so hated that it was changed almost immediately. A system that caused almost all of my friends to quit even before they realized all of the other myriad flaws in 1.0. So... why are we calling for that kind of system, again?

I don't think many people prefer RNG only systems. As I said earlier the primal extreme system is practically perfect. the content has direct rewards that drop when you beat it. and if RNG is terrible its not so bad because you still get a token and thus progress is guaranteed.

the other thing with primal loot systems is there's no lockout. if players want to they could grind the hell out of Sophia and get every weapon on the first day or 2 of the patch.

it really is the best loot system in XIV. and should be more widespread across content. it's a system where you can not lose. and thus is almost perfect

[Kaurie]

Question for anyone who favors RNG-only dungeon drops: would you also favor random experience gains? Like, instead of gaining experience for each kill based on the level of the mob, you randomly gain experience each time you do anything, at a very low rate. Essentially, using FFXI's skillup system for experience. Where you can do a leve and maybe you'd gain a full level, or maybe you'd gain absolutely nothing. Does that sound appealing?

Because that's the same concept as RNG-only drops. It's also the original class experience system in 1.0. A system that was so hated that it was changed almost immediately. A system that caused almost all of my friends to quit even before they realized all of the other myriad flaws in 1.0. So... why are we calling for that kind of system, again?

No, I would not like that, and I don't see it as a remotely similar concept.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

No, I would not like that, and I don't see it as a remotely similar concept.

It is, however, nearly identical. In the case of rng based loot drops, your progression is wholly and entirely dependent on RNG to give you the item you need with the stats you want to progress. Similarly, having levels increase based on RNG is, again, leaving the entirety of your progression up to the whims of the Desire Sensor. Why is it OK for one form of progression to be rng locked, while another form isn't?

[Kaurie]

It is, however, nearly identical. In the case of rng based loot drops, your progression is wholly and entirely dependent on RNG to give you the item you need with the stats you want to progress. Similarly, having levels increase based on RNG is, again, leaving the entirety of your progression up to the whims of the Desire Sensor. Why is it OK for one form of progression to be rng locked, while another form isn't?

No, it would be identical to randomly gaining tomestones, not randomly gaining gear. If you want an equal comparison, the RNG experience system would give you a level when successful. Talaren also added in "at a very low rate" which is not a requirement of an RNG system, but was a requirement for the comparison - further differentiating the analogy.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

No, it would be identical to randomly gaining tomestones, not randomly gaining gear. If you want an equal comparison, the RNG experience system would give you a level when successful. Talaren also added in "at a very low rate" which is not a requirement of an RNG system, but was a requirement for the comparison - further differentiating the analogy.

But what do tomestones have to do with a purely rng based loot drop progression system? The system you're proposing has no tomestones, so progression is wholly linked to rng. How is that any different from gaining levels at random when you complete content? It isn't.

[Kaurie]

But what do tomestones have to do with a purely rng based loot drop progression system? The system you're proposing has no tomestones, so progression is wholly linked to rng. How is that any different from gaining levels at random when you complete content? It isn't.

This honestly makes no sense in the context of this conversation.

Tomestones have nothing to do with a purely RNG system. Let's look at the analogy. In Teleran's analogy...

Tomestone = Experience gained
Level = New Piece of Gear

If obtaining experience is the RNG factor, then the analogy logically follows that Teleran is equating the RNG system to obtaining tomestones. In other words you have a random chance to obtain a tomestone.

However, that is not the RNG system that I have proposed, or is used anywhere. The RNG system has you obtain a full piece of gear, which in the analogy is equivalent to a whole level. Therefore, a proper comparison is to say that you would gain levels via RNG, and not gain experience via RNG.

As mentioned, Telaran also added a caveat that the RNG experience (RNG tomestones) would be a low drop rate, further distancing itself from a proper comparison - as all of my posts recommending an RNG system have suggested a "frequent small upgrade" process.

[vp_cmc]

But if we use leveling analogy for tomestones, it means, that you can only have fixed amount of exp per week. Say, 15% per week. It's not like it is now for leveling also.

[Frowny]

We have this system. It is A9-12.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

An rng system without low rng won't do much to keep people playing, so it's an entirely natural caveat to make, if one that doesn't need to be explicitly stated. I personally can't even think of someone that doesn't equate rng based systems with low rng. As for the analogy, exp in a system when levels are obtained at random are completely arbitrary. The crux is that the progression is locked behind an RNG wall, which isn't something everyone enjoys. As for frequent small upgrades... what's the difference between tomestones and your suggested high rng system, besides forcing players into content they might loathe doing for the sake of a 1 in 10 chance to win a bit of progression?