Questions and Feedback on the Future of FINAL FANTASY XIV

[Darkshine]

Look, I hate using forums. Mostly because they are coded like manure, and slow, and never clean. I am old, I like to just play games, but because of the OUTRAGE that I feel right now towards a company that I believed in since I was a kid, I managed to convince myself to put up with forums.

I understand that FFXIV was a complete flop, I get that. I would not expect less of Square than to fix it ASAP as the Final Fantasy series is a multi BILLION(Trillion since inital release?) dollar market.

What I cannot believe is that they would expect people to pay for a game that wont be completed for OVER a year...! What kind of crack-smokin business suit thought that up??!? I betcha he/she has never touched a video game in their life except to sell it to the kid down the street.

I have played since the very first days of FF starting from the NES, when I begged and begged my parents for it and subsequent releases into the SNES and Playstation. I did extra chores, got straight A's, and was a model child most of the time, just so I could spend my money on a game.

And now I am betrayed by the very game and company that I have always believed in, they have gone the route of corporate greed as well. I was so excited as my own children are getting old enough to understand the final fantasy game concept and I was looking forward to possibly introducing them to it.

Although the askance to support a non finished game for almost a year is absolute madness and the person that suggested it initially should be required to wear a court jester hat and donkey ears at the office for the remainder of employment with Square Enix.

I am apalled and outraged that you would dare ask a community that has already been spurned once by a worthless game release to the tune of anywhere from 75-150 US dollars to further pay you any money until you deliever the finished and complete product.

I hope sincerely that this post reaches whoever it needs to in order to slap some sense back into Square Enix, and not just sit in the dark recesses of threaded forums(I can almost hear the small chuckle as the admin deletes it). I know that the "glory days" of Final Fantasy are long over, but quality and ethical business should NEVER, and I mean NEVER be put to rest.

I encourage all fellow Final Fantasy fans to join in agreement with this as we have put up with a heck of a lot in the past almost year. I treat the continued free trial as incentive from Square Enix that we didn't bang down the doors and scream for our money back for an unfinished, lack-luster game, and probably prevented many lawsuits from being filed.

If Square Enix is really that hard up for public relations, marketing, and overall customer satisfaction, hire me. (Sorry had to plug) I would take care of these things, because that is my line of work, and I am used to nothing less than impossible. Above all else, I REMEMBER THAT I WAS AN ORIGINAL FINAL FANTASY FAN FIRST, and I am just one of the multitude of them out there, and my first priority would be to take care of the gamers and long-term fans.

Even though I have always been loyal to your Final Fantasy Series, you won't charge me for a product/service that isn't finished, as I wouldn't let anyone else do it.

Don't give into greed. Do the right thing.

/rage rant off

Thanks for reading!

[leomike35]

Look, I hate using forums. Mostly because they are coded like manure, and slow, and never clean. I am old, I like to just play games, but because of the OUTRAGE that I feel right now towards a company that I believed in since I was a kid, I managed to convince myself to put up with forums.

I understand that FFXIV was a complete flop, I get that. I would not expect less of Square than to fix it ASAP as the Final Fantasy series is a multi BILLION(Trillion since inital release?) dollar market.

What I cannot believe is that they would expect people to pay for a game that wont be completed for OVER a year...! What kind of crack-smokin business suit thought that up??!? I betcha he/she has never touched a video game in their life except to sell it to the kid down the street.

I have played since the very first days of FF starting from the NES, when I begged and begged my parents for it and subsequent releases into the SNES and Playstation. I did extra chores, got straight A's, and was a model child most of the time, just so I could spend my money on a game.

And now I am betrayed by the very game and company that I have always believed in, they have gone the route of corporate greed as well. I was so excited as my own children are getting old enough to understand the final fantasy game concept and I was looking forward to possibly introducing them to it.

Although the askance to support a non finished game for almost a year is absolute madness and the person that suggested it initially should be required to wear a court jester hat and donkey ears at the office for the remainder of employment with Square Enix.

I am apalled and outraged that you would dare ask a community that has already been spurned once by a worthless game release to the tune of anywhere from 75-150 US dollars to further pay you any money until you deliever the finished and complete product.

I hope sincerely that this post reaches whoever it needs to in order to slap some sense back into Square Enix, and not just sit in the dark recesses of threaded forums(I can almost hear the small chuckle as the admin deletes it). I know that the "glory days" of Final Fantasy are long over, but quality and ethical business should NEVER, and I mean NEVER be put to rest.

I encourage all fellow Final Fantasy fans to join in agreement with this as we have put up with a heck of a lot in the past almost year. I treat the continued free trial as incentive from Square Enix that we didn't bang down the doors and scream for our money back for an unfinished, lack-luster game, and probably prevented many lawsuits from being filed.

If Square Enix is really that hard up for public relations, marketing, and overall customer satisfaction, hire me. (Sorry had to plug) I would take care of these things, because that is my line of work, and I am used to nothing less than impossible. Above all else, I REMEMBER THAT I WAS AN ORIGINAL FINAL FANTASY FAN FIRST, and I am just one of the multitude of them out there, and my first priority would be to take care of the gamers and long-term fans.

Even though I have always been loyal to your Final Fantasy Series, you won't charge me for a product/service that isn't finished, as I wouldn't let anyone else do it.

Don't give into greed. Do the right thing.

/rage rant off

Thanks for reading!

Again with the half finished game stuff. Come on my good man this is a mmo its not like you bought FFXIII and it wasnt finished. Totally different. They are not being greedy they are bending over backwards for us and all of this in spite of the nuclear crisis they had earlier this year. You feel betrayed? I understand this but I think you like many fans that got their feelings hurt and cant forgive. They arent charging you and leaving things as is that would be robbery. They are still giving us all the patches and hotfixes while getting 2.0 ready to go. Many feel that is when they should charge and some do think after 1.19 they should be charging. I am going to pay not for greed but to help. Also they cant steal from you if you give it willingly. There are no guns to your head so everyone should all calm down.

[Darkshine]

Again with the half finished game stuff. Come on my good man this is a mmo its not like you bought FFXIII and it wasnt finished. Totally different. They are not being greedy they are bending over backwards for us and all of this in spite of the nuclear crisis they had earlier this year. You feel betrayed? I understand this but I think you like many fans that got their feelings hurt and cant forgive. They arent charging you and leaving things as is that would be robbery. They are still giving us all the patches and hotfixes while getting 2.0 ready to go. Many feel that is when they should charge and some do think after 1.19 they should be charging. I am going to pay not for greed but to help. Also they cant steal from you if you give it willingly. There are no guns to your head so everyone should all calm down.

Sigh, let me greatly expand on my outrage at this. First off, if you are willing to pay for something unfinished, tell me what kind of rebuilt vintage car you are absolutely fanatic about, I will sell it to you half finished for a finished price and I will finish it next year. What? All of a sudden not sound so good? Why not? You are fanatic about paying SE for their "efforts" toward ver 2.0 just as I am as outraged so I will not. I mean really what are we paying them for? So what, we're tipping them for their cataclysmic screw up cause they wouldn't give up on the project? Or rather we should feel sorry for them because they screwed the pooch on what was supposed to be a finished product and wound up being only about half a dozen individual unique content events in game? Yes I am sorry, sorry that they took my money and handed me a game that lagged, was broken, and was about as content unique as most atari 2600 games are, just with exponentially better graphics. (Graphics which wouldn't be notable or noticable on anything less than a serious gaming system.)

Which reminds me youngling...

I am well aware of what an MMO is. Completely familar with the concept and design behind it, and more familiar with the business, marketing and public relations than you could guess. I would be willing to bet that I was playing version 1.0 online MUDD games, assembling and programming computers when you were still in diapers, so please try not to sound older than you probably are and attempt to teach me what an MMO is about. You are young enough to still have faith in a company even when they are screwing you blatently and outright, which is good. Take heart in the fact that you are not alone and there are millions of consumers in the world like you, and the ideal target crowd for marketers like me. We call you the 'carrot' crowd. Generally in the early to late 20's age bracket, primarially male, and apt to buy or pay for anything so long as there is perceived value, or rather the carrot on the end of an unusually a long stick.

Sorry for the "e-thug" beating as you called it earlier, but that is nothing more than simple truths that I picked up on from your posts. I am happy you defend SE, not saying you are right or wrong to do it, but please do not argue with my, or anyone elses, reasonings for not supporting them. If SE really is listening to their community, which I doubt except in a few common agreement and common sense cases, the ending result would be a game that is so utterly complex and confusing that most people would give up and stop playing anyway. I don't really care how the game turns out, so long as it is playable, has content which is enjoyable, and lives up to my personal expectations of what I am paying for. Those are very broad terminologies, but I am trying to keep this to a short novel.

I am talking specifically about one thing, my payment for a product/service that I have already paid for once and has not lived up to anything close to being an MMORPG. I obviously was not alone, and so SE, and I emphasize that it was THEIR decision, decided not to charge a subscription fee. Wonderful, but that doesn't improve the game any... We've had 19 major revisions and several subset revisions, and the game is barely further than what it was at the start. I see detail and some minor functionality and database changes, but nothing substantial. That is what the new director was saying will come, so all ye people start paying us now so we can build it.

As said by someone earlier, I am not a charity, nor should be expected to be one. Go take out a loan, this is your mess, you are financially bound to clean it up and provide me with a product/service that I paid for, and as of yet I have not received it. The product is even so grossly exaggerated and malformed that not even someone like Sony Online Entertainment's lawyer-weasel-snake hybrids could get around it with a prior to entry legal agreement.

Although SE has stated that it will be delivered in a year, what exactly did I pay for way back when? The right to log on and be mortified? I think not. Now you want 150 bucks more from me while I wait and get it gradually over the next year, with the bulk of it after I have paid all this extra money? Please share your opium SE, you got some high quality stuff.

Let me break down how they analyize expansion/subscription financial data from MMORPG's in general, as it seems to be a mystery on this forum that I have read several partially correct versions of so far. In no way shape or form is SE hurting for money on this project, and even if they were, they have 15+ other games that have made them money over the years with 3 that are still mostly active making them money. This is not even considering other collectables and items sold with the games. Believe me, SE has money, and LOTS of it. They funded FFX-FFXIV in house and WITHOUT subsidary investments or loans.

At any rate, the finance reviewers have only statistical data to go off of most times, and projection levels based upon current history. As the only history they have is covered with a big radiological hazard symbol, they have to basically guess. Now they use some highly sugar coated version like "estimated subscription flow for the blah quarter of blah fiscal year", but the truth is they have no substantial accumulated data to go off of. So they go to the backup plan.. how is the lack of FFXIV subscription income affecting our company as a whole? This is determined in part by flux in stock prices, game sales, prior similar history events (which I can't really think of SE having one besides FFIX.) , and a multitude of other things.

The answer to this is that Square stock has been in a constant state of flux, but I am sure that primary investors and stock holders are worried that FFXIV will NEVER be viable and they have threatened to sell out the stock which would reduce confidence in the business aka stock prices, as in that world when the herd leader goes, they all tend to follow. The World Market is a VERY fickle beast, even more so than Wall Street. But I digress.

The point I am getting at here is that SE is stuck between a rock and a hard place. What they are on the virge of doing is making yet another cataclysmic mistake in attempting to please their shareholders, but piss off a healthy portion of their projected income from the remaining player base they have now. The fact that they outright LOST a whopping 40% of their base from inception should be enough to tell their shareholders that forcing a payment plan prior to completed re-release would run a reasonable risk of losing 40% or MORE again. (Judging from forums solely, and more than semi-serious posts about refusing to pay during the interium.)

Ideally, whoever said that the risk of losing more player base in FFXIV is small by restarting the subscription fees should wear the hat and ears I mentioned earlier. I know because SOMEONE had to of said it, and I doubt that the director would of suggested implementing it given all his earlier dissertations to the community. He is a good director, and good at making hard descisions, but most of those proffered descisions probably aren't his, or his alone.

Now, to get back on the beaten path here, I am happy that you leomike35, have found a reason somewhere to defend and give SE your money. That is your choice, just as my choice to be outraged that they would even suggest such a concept to me is mine. Please stop harrassing people that feel differently, even if you feel that their decisions are short sighted, malformed, or in any other way misguided.

How about this??? How about those of us that want to pay can pay/donate. Those that want to play for free until 2.0 or atleast 1.21 they can as well. Would that satisfy everyone? Would anyone feel guilty playing for free while knowing there are those that are actually paying? I'm just curious because the answer you would give, whether you post it or not, will reveal the real reason you are still around. Something to think about.

I would be just fine with that, and no I would not feel guilty in the least. I would even consider doing a partial subscription for like 5-7 USD a month. I am still here because I WANT the game to be everything they promised it would be, and I WANT them to finish it. I may have less than 200 bucks invested in this game individually, but over the years I have invested thousands if not tens of thousands in Square, Soft, Enix, and the like, and I did it because I believed in the company as a whole.

They have provided me with a superior product at a reasonable price in the past, and I believe they still can with XIV, but I am not willing to go double or nothing on my investment into this game. That is unreasonable, and unquestionably not something I would expect anyone to do. Moreover, it is unethical business-wise and I can tell from the way the director carefully worded his announcement that he knows it, but it would appear his hands are being tied by other forces. Thus the comment about the company falling into the greed trap. Maybe not the FFXIV team because they know how crappy the deal is as they directly work on the project, but whoever is calling the shots on the upper floors and ignoring the team's recommendations.

These head honchos ought to sit down and play FFXIV for about 3 hours in the same manner that us players are forced to (meaning no cheat hacks or level selectors or given weapons), I doubt if they would last 10 minutes before being absolutely appalled with the game, and completely bored.

If they are not, well you know what they say about simple pleasures.....*shudders* I hope that they would find it just as revolting as the player base that left given their lofty status.

Above all else, I do agree with what many have said already today... why would I pay over 100 bucks while I was waiting for 2.0 as there would be very little I could do until then as I am max level in all Disciplines? What good is watching armegeddon if it lags every 3 seconds, despite your powerhouse machine? (Also, you won't actually see the event, you will see a cutscene but the land layout will be altered after patch and server reboot. Although I think the other may be worth looking into doing as a treat for their loyal player base that didn't outright abandon the game. Good luck with that memory allocation... lol.)

Finally, I really didn't see more than just a few things in the 2.0 PDF's that was real promising or concrete in "this is how this is going to be", and definitely not enough to call it a definitive plan. Roadmap, hmm, maybe, but I would use the term very loosely, as major concepts still have not been solidified into their forcasted outcome. I mean what are they hiding? Why are some things still a secret? I would like to think its secretive, but I think it is just that they have not decided yet, and don't know what to do. So what exactly am I being charged for again? Sorry SE, you may be able to WoW a portion of the players with some discussion, boards, concept art, and UI screenshots, but not me, and that is DEFINITELY not enough to call that a subscription worthy plan in my book.

Although I may be open to the idea of a reduced subscription, SE still has a MYRIAD of things to change and retool and rebirth before they are getting into my pocket book again. If that isn't good enough for them, then they will lose yet another life long customer that will NEVER come back as you cannot be trusted anymore to deliver quality product. I will discourage, but not prevent, my children from buying your products or services when the time comes, and will offer my experiences with you up to your colossal flop and betrayal to anyone who inquires. All of this not really personal(a little bit is, but I will get over it), just business.

Thanks for reading again, sorry for the novel!

[Issac]

A Long-Winded Analysis of Why I Hate SE, By a Guy who Knows the Business

I don't know just what you are expecting. I don't care how much experience you say you have in marketing. I don't care if you think what they're doing is unfair, a bad business decision, or whatever. Because it all boils down to this:

Do you work for them? Are you making their decisions? No? Then shut the hell up. I think they're better off without you.

I paid $75USD for the game. I then proceeded to play the game for over a year for free because of a bunch of people complaining. To be honest, I would have payed for it from release. Am I "right" in saying that? Well, no- Obviously the majority opinion of elements about the game influenced them to let us play for free. But here's the thing.

The game wasn't designed to be play for free. There are no microtransactions. SE, the entire time, has been scrambling to deliver a stronger product. Huge patches have kept coming out (through a disaster, mind you) each full of new content. They have been listening to us, a first for them. They have bent over backwards to meet the demand of communication and have been developing the game in a fair direction, fairly quickly.

They didn't have to let us play for free. They could have kept charging and used that money to bring in more devs to produce the content faster. But no, while not making any money from the game, they spit out patch after patch.

The 12-month path from "subscription start" to FFXIV2.0 is going to be riddled with unique story content that is "live." We're all going to be part of something. I'll thank all their hard work with my wallet, and they'll thank my patronage with unique story content. I see it as a win-win. So, Darkshine, you have to ask yourself;

Do you enjoy the game in its current state? Do you want to experience the 7th Umbral Era? Then pay up.
Hate the game? Don't care about the story content? GTFO. You'd probably just be complaining and ruining everyone else's fun ingame anyway.

It's as simple as that. It doesn't matter if you're 15, 25, 35, or 45. It's all about your outlook and whether or not you're willing to pay for it. No one cares what experience you have.

Me personally? I fit your aforementioned age group at 24. But it doesn't matter how old I am because I am looking forward to experiencing the coming patches and story content, and I am willing to pay for that.

Sorry, no. I won't validate your experience in this situation. Maybe if I were to choose to consult with you on a marketing decision, but no one around here is doing that right now.

Good luck, have fun.

(P.S.) I still play MUDs.

[GinTama]

Look, I hate using forums. Mostly because they are coded like manure, and slow, and never clean. I am old, I like to just play games, but because of the OUTRAGE that I feel right now towards a company that I believed in since I was a kid, I managed to convince myself to put up with forums.

I understand that FFXIV was a complete flop, I get that. I would not expect less of Square than to fix it ASAP as the Final Fantasy series is a multi BILLION(Trillion since inital release?) dollar market.

What I cannot believe is that they would expect people to pay for a game that wont be completed for OVER a year...! What kind of crack-smokin business suit thought that up??!? I betcha he/she has never touched a video game in their life except to sell it to the kid down the street.

I have played since the very first days of FF starting from the NES, when I begged and begged my parents for it and subsequent releases into the SNES and Playstation. I did extra chores, got straight A's, and was a model child most of the time, just so I could spend my money on a game.

And now I am betrayed by the very game and company that I have always believed in, they have gone the route of corporate greed as well. I was so excited as my own children are getting old enough to understand the final fantasy game concept and I was looking forward to possibly introducing them to it.

Although the askance to support a non finished game for almost a year is absolute madness and the person that suggested it initially should be required to wear a court jester hat and donkey ears at the office for the remainder of employment with Square Enix.

I am apalled and outraged that you would dare ask a community that has already been spurned once by a worthless game release to the tune of anywhere from 75-150 US dollars to further pay you any money until you deliever the finished and complete product.

I hope sincerely that this post reaches whoever it needs to in order to slap some sense back into Square Enix, and not just sit in the dark recesses of threaded forums(I can almost hear the small chuckle as the admin deletes it). I know that the "glory days" of Final Fantasy are long over, but quality and ethical business should NEVER, and I mean NEVER be put to rest.

I encourage all fellow Final Fantasy fans to join in agreement with this as we have put up with a heck of a lot in the past almost year. I treat the continued free trial as incentive from Square Enix that we didn't bang down the doors and scream for our money back for an unfinished, lack-luster game, and probably prevented many lawsuits from being filed.

If Square Enix is really that hard up for public relations, marketing, and overall customer satisfaction, hire me. (Sorry had to plug) I would take care of these things, because that is my line of work, and I am used to nothing less than impossible. Above all else, I REMEMBER THAT I WAS AN ORIGINAL FINAL FANTASY FAN FIRST, and I am just one of the multitude of them out there, and my first priority would be to take care of the gamers and long-term fans.

Even though I have always been loyal to your Final Fantasy Series, you won't charge me for a product/service that isn't finished, as I wouldn't let anyone else do it.

Don't give into greed. Do the right thing.

/rage rant off

Thanks for reading!

i just totally agree with this