Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[cgbspender]

Holy crap if they weren't squishy. So, all together, like ilvl 105 or something? I don't mind having low ilvl people, but why would she pull big if she's so squishy?

Is it, really ? People used to mass-pull in there wearing i85 at best. With proportionnal dps and healing output.

[Fluffernuff]

Holy crap if they weren't squishy. So, all together, like ilvl 105 or something? I don't mind having low ilvl people, but why would she pull big if she's so squishy?

Is it, really ? People used to mass-pull in there wearing i85 at best. With proportionnal dps and healing output.

Can confirm. Qarn HM is *minimum* ilvl synced to 80. if they were 105, they should have been fine. WAR naturaly TAKES more damage though- defiance doesnt reduce damage... and at 50, pretty sure they only really have foresight and vengeances for cooldowns for trash pulls... bloodbath too, but thats not a damage reduction.

even THEN, If i were that WAR, even in ilvl 80, I would sure as fluff pull everything the moment I saw a BLM... and then getting a SECOND after a DRG drops? yeah. I'm pulling everything. Even if I have to holmgang.

[Frowny]

To counter the above BLM stories, I had one in Gubal HM who on big pulls would do the single-target rotation. Only the last pull did they use AoEs and... they flared a single mob. Seems the DRG spamming Ring of Thorns took 15mins to sink in...

[Kaurie]

Can confirm. Qarn HM is ilvl synced to 80. if they were 105, they should have been fine. WAR naturaly TAKES more damage though- defiance doesnt reduce damage... and at 50, pretty sure they only really have foresight and vengeances for cooldowns for trash pulls... bloodbath too, but thats not a damage reduction.

even THEN, If i were that WAR, even in ilvl 80, I would sure as fluff pull everything the moment I saw a BLM... and then getting a SECOND after a DRG drops? yeah. I'm pulling everything. Even if I have to holmgang.

Defiance increases HP and increases the health gained on healing spells, which works out to effectively the same thing as damage reduction.4

For example, say both tanks have 100 HP, and are fighting a mob that does 10 damage per hit.

A Paladin will have 100 HP and take 20% reduced damage, thus they will take 8 damage per hit. That means it will take 13 (12.5) attacks to kill the Paladin.
A Warrior will have 125 HP and takes 0% reduce damage, thus they will take 10 damage per hit. That means it will take 13 (12.5) attacks to kill the Warrior.

Say a cure gives a 8 health back, which perfectly counters the 8 damage per hit gained on the Paladin. On the Warrior, they will receive 9.6 HP back. Naturally, in this situation, the Paladin has a slight edge - except when the heal crits, where the Warrior has a slight edge.

The real difference is the number of defensive cooldowns that each job gets, but Warrior has a decent set of cooldowns if used well.

[Ghishlain]

Can confirm. Qarn HM is ilvl synced to 80. if they were 105, they should have been fine.

Just a small correction here. Qarn has a minimal ilvl of 80 and has no item sync at level 50. So i85 is pretty low compared to those who are i130.

[Fluffernuff]

Just a small correction here. Qarn has a minimal ilvl of 80 and has no item sync at level 50. So i85 is pretty low compared to those who are i130.

Ah! I will re-word my post with that- I admit, I was looking at the duty entry. I did not feel like actually queuing for it only to drop the group and leave them in a slump. I wouldn't want someone to end up here complaining about a certain tank dropping at the sight of Qarn! I assumed the ilvl listed was the sync. I apologize.

Defiance increases HP and increases the health gained on healing spells, which works out to effectively the same thing as damage reduction.

For example, say both tanks have 100 HP, and are fighting a mob that does 10 damage per hit.

A Paladin will have 100 HP and take 20% reduced damage, thus they will take 8 damage per hit. That means it will take 13 (12.5) attacks to kill the Paladin.
A Warrior will have 125 HP and takes 0% reduce damage, thus they will take 10 damage per hit. That means it will take 13 (12.5) attacks to kill the Warrior.

Say a cure gives a 8 health back, which perfectly counters the 8 damage per hit gained on the Paladin. On the Warrior, they will receive 9.6 HP back. Naturally, in this situation, the Paladin has a slight edge - except when the heal crits, where the Warrior has a slight edge.

The real difference is the number of defensive cooldowns that each job gets, but Warrior has a decent set of cooldowns if used well.

Well this isn't incorrect. Rather, I was mentioning the lack of damage reduction as a response to "being squishy". Without cooldowns, that .4 difference can end up being a thing sometimes, depending on how many numbers are involved. that .4 can eventually add up to an 8, meaning an additional heal would be lost/needed.

Then again, its always hard to apply static math to DF. sometimes its better, alot of times it's worse. after all, a PLD actually getting a heal for 8 vs a WAR that only gets a heal for 8 when it's boosted means the PLD ends up winning that as well. or flipped. whichever.
I do rather appreciate how even the tanks are in the tanking slot.

[VanilleFang]

Is it, really ? People used to mass-pull in there wearing i85 at best. With proportionnal dps and healing output.

When Qarn was released Poetics(i120) were released at the same time. The average item level was well above i85 at that point for a lot of players. Even players who were around i100 at least had their accessories up to par. So I doubt people mass-pulled "in wearing i85 at best". Soldiery(i100) has been out since 2.2 (Qarn was released in 2.4) at this point, so.

I wasn't imagining that the tank was squishier than anything I have seen in a while. They couldn't even take 5 hits without dropping dead. They were at 50% HP and dropped dead within 1 Holy.

[Rivxkobe]

..

Being 5 items levels above the minimum doesn't make you tanky enough to mass pull most end game dungeons. Even if i did (again it doesn't) it doesn't mean you should. It comes down to how each player plays. Hell, you just literally posted a story on the previous page that shows that item level doesn't mean things are always going to go as planned or how they should.

Edit: Anyway the average item level at level 50 hasn't been 90, not to mention 85, for over two and a half years. Way before Qarn Hard came out. So using i85 as a bench mark of how people ran it when it was first released is not only false information, but frankly something that rarely ever happened.

[Fluffernuff]

Being 5 items levels above the minimum doesn't make you tanky enough to mass pull most end game dungeons. Even if i did (again it doesn't) it doesn't mean you should. It comes down to how each player plays. Hell, you just literally posted a story on the previous page that shows that item level doesn't mean things are always going to go as planned or how they should.

Alright. Since this is being leveled at me, this is actually perfect. I reposted this story here to be fun. The point of the story (that was editted out, as it wasn't necessary for this thread) was in response to tanks being REQUIRED to pull large packs. So a case such as this actually helps prop up why a tank SHOULDN'T be required to pull everything in sight.Though I suppose it would seem rather hypocritical now that it would seem I'm on the other side of the fence. So when I posted, I put myself in the WAR's shoes-

WAR/WHM/BLM/BLM perfect AoE comp. I've been pressured/demanded to always pull big. I'm at ilvl sync(I was wrong on this one, but this is my thought process at the time).

On paper, there's no reason why I should be mass pulling, no?

In light of 105 NOT being synced changes my perception on the situation, though.


Just as a side note, ilvl doesnt actually translate into tankiness. One could be in full i270 armor and only level 1 accessories- they would lose alot of VIT/secondaries, yes, but accessories dont grant defense. They would have pretty low ilvl comparatively, but still be relatively tanky. In this particular case, it was said the ARMOR (what gives the defense) was ilvl 125HQ. I would say thats PRETTY close to 130 defense.

Unless I'm misinformed about how ilvl sync works. again.

[Jatoi]

...Brayflox normal with a tank that had on some level 1 accessories. and a couple of level 15 ones too.

It was not a fun time. But I stuck with it because I am that stubborn. One of the DPS left because of it I believe, but they were replaced with another rather quickly.