i am not mass pull tank

[MihaelB]

If my job is to manage to pulls, why is it also my responsibility to now complete them? I thought thats why there were 2 extra slots that needed filled.

Curious to who mentioned that? It's not your responsibility but the DPS's. Tank and healers aid the speed but are by no means responsible.

[Kaurie]

No one has asked it directly. only the fact that the very act ACT of a mass pull "make the dungeon go 5 minutes quicker." I'm asking how/why this is the case, and why is that figure is the Tank's responsibility to somehow uphold.

As a summoner, I will use dots + bane + painflare + blizzard 2+ shadowflare + deathflare and kill all the mobs at the same time, whether there are 3 mobs or more. Additionally, pulling 2 packs of a time has my timers on abilities like Aetherflow, Swiftcast and Tri-Disaster go up almost perfectly. So, if you want me to kill a group faster, and kill 9 mobs in that time instead of 3, then do the large pull. Otherwise, if you pull 1 group at a time, it will slow me down by over doubling the length.

In other words, we can kill 4 packs of mobs within 2 full timers (or 2 pulls, 2 minutes), or we can kill 4 packs of mobs in just over 4 minutes (4 pulls).

[Bourne_Endeavor]

This is one of the reasons why I think the current system is okay. You can set your own difficulty, pull as much as you think you can handle, and pull more once you feel like you're ready to push the envelope. That's one of the reasons Hullbreaker Hard was so loathesome - so many gates! Thankfully, it was balanced by Sohr Khai which optionally had some of the most challenging pulls I've seen in a long time.

Considering that these dungeons are meant to be farmed, practically from out of the gate, the ease of them makes sense. It DOES seem a bit silly to call them "Expert," though, to be sure!

Except you really aren't. When I play Dragoon, mass pulls are incredibly mindless. I literally do nothing besides Heavy Thrust -> Ring of Thorn -> Doom Spike. Toss in my buffs and Dragonfire Dive if they're off cooldown and that's it. I have actually began ignoring mechanics in Xelphatol because I can health through them with just Second Wind and Bloodbath. It's no coincidence the current Anima step has us going back into Expert. I've experienced far slower queues this patch cycle than previous. And I strongly feel it's due to how easy dungeons have become. People just aren't doing them. Farming isn't a good excuse because that only encourages burnout. I've gone weeks barely touching my roulettes because I'm just flat out bored.

For me, pushing the envelope is when I've actually progressed. If Experts hit hard on release, but by the end of the patch cycle or even the next patch, I could pull the room. That feels like an accomplishment because I couldn't do it before. Xelphatol? Day one: pull the room, aoe everything done. Six weeks later, I've had groups almost kill the Owl in GGH before he even summons Behemoth. I've even had a Scholar tank. That isn't setting a difficulty, at least not in my opinion. There just isn't one to begin with.

[basketofseals]

Out of everything in this thread, I'm most bothered by the OP blaming it on his ADHD. That's not how ADHD works.

[Jas710]

Tanks set the pace. Respect it. Period. Mass pulls is a plus - if the tank feels like doing it. If normal pulls tend to frustrate you because it seems "inefficient" or an "inconvenience", then by all means you are always free to drop group, switch to your tank, and go mass pull your own runs to make yourself happy. That is of course, if the tank hasn't already dropped to get away from your self-centered ass.

[Fynlar]

Please consider swapping to DPS or healer.

Why? So that they end up having to deal with another tank mass pulling things, ending up with the same problem?

If you're spending 30+ minutes in level 50 or 60 dungeons, the issue isn't the size of the packs the tank is pulling.

This guy gets it.

Pulling one group at a time, assuming your DPS is still competent, will only make your run about 2-3 minutes longer at most. I have still had very fast dungeon runs where I was pulling in this fashion.

If you're seeing more of a difference than that, that's not on the tank.

I am okay with small pulls, as long as the tank is moving quickly between pulls.

This tends to make more of a difference, too.

Another summoner pitching in: it really is faster for me to pull and get spam-healed and blow out my deathflare and survive than go through slow and painful pulls. This is mostly in 60 dungeons however.

Another healer pitching in: if I see a SMN (or whoever) intentionally going out to do something like this I get a lot more enjoyment out of seeing them die than actually bothering to heal them.

9/10 times when I pull hate on half the mob in a dungeon, the tank is a Paladin. Every once in a while it's a WAR that wants to face pull a large pack in Deliverance so he can get the uber dps, but most of the "OMG don't attack until after I'm done pulling" comes from Paladins.

Funny, I get this problem far more from WARs than any other tank, surely because some of them just cling so tightly to their DPS stance.

Almost every time I've pulled hate and died since 3.x and have had to say "tank, please tank" it's been a WAR.

You must also have a count down macro you insist on using at every boss and probably fight over hate in Library of the Ancients. :3

Funny thing is, a few days ago I got chewed out (on PLD) by a BLM after a Xelphatol run because I didn't do countdowns before every boss and apparently I hurt his deeps as a result. Oh poor baby.

You really can't win with some people.

[Kosme]

Pulling one group at a time, assuming your DPS is still competent, will only make your run about 2-3 minutes longer at most.

Or longer. You just can't and won't get from boss to boss as quickly when you only have buffs and other useful cooldowns available for half the mob packs, thanks to small pulls.

[alimdia]

Single pull is definitely not 2-3 mins longer than big pull, cds just don't line up well and overall aoeing more stuff at once is much higher dps than single target combos.

[Fynlar]

Or longer. You just can't and won't get from boss to boss as quickly when you only have buffs and other useful cooldowns available for half the mob packs, thanks to small pulls.

Again, I've pulled dungeons like this, the difference is not as extreme as you think assuming a similar level of party damage output.

If the damage is good, it'll still be a fast dungeon. If it's not, it honestly doesn't matter as much whether I pull big or small (and if it's really bad, with a big pull it could end up to a wipe because the healer cannot outlast).

Single pull is definitely not 2-3 mins longer than big pull, cds just don't line up well and overall aoeing more stuff at once is much higher dps than single target combos.

I have done both kinds of runs and seen the results firsthand with parties with competent DPS. Yes, that really is about how much difference it makes.

[Bloody]

Again, I've pulled dungeons like this, the difference is not as extreme as you think assuming a similar level of party damage output.

If the damage is good, it'll still be a fast dungeon. If it's not, it honestly doesn't matter as much whether I pull big or small (and if it's really bad it could end up to a wipe because the healer cannot outlast).



I have done both kinds of runs and seen the results firsthand with parties with competent DPS. Yes, that really is about how much difference it makes.

It is entirely dependent on your group composition. If you have single-target specialists like the melee DPS, then yes the run will be similar. However, if you are rocking with a summoner or black mage and a bard, you are wasting soooo much more time by not doing mass pulls. Competent DPS always makes the run faster, but tailoring your pulls to the specialty of the group composition is also key for maximizing uptime.