Early Regen Spams In All Grades of Content

[technole]

You're comparing the "Legendary Tank" to a bad healer, and saying its ok for the healer to play bad, if the tank is great.

No one said you have to be legendary, and it's not okay for anyone to be playing bad. But the running regen, snap aggro scenario is something any tank should learn to handle anyway because there are these similar scenarios in end-game extreme content, and it's not always because a healer is playing subpar.


It comes up if you ever tanked extreme primals that have many adds like Sephirot Extreme, where each tank has to tank different adds, instead of any like normal. Plus there is likely always going to be healer regens running from the phase transition. The big add is easy to grab threat. But if you are the tank covering the multiple small adds you just use DRK A.Drain AoE threat for each pile since they spawn in the corners and they'll come to you before the healer. While you can run over and unleash the pile too or if they start to hit the healer already, it's not as efficient. As a Warrior you can just use your stacks for the circular-threat Steel Cyclone since that is heavy threat, or run over and OP if you have to. It depends on what I have up at the time.

But anyway, if you don't use the right skills on-time they just munch on the healers, and everything can fall apart. Many options for each tank. It's just good to know what you have in your arsenal for threat, it's in the tooltips for that matter. Just like a WHM has Shroud to lessen threat, it won't always line-up for these things because they probably used it earlier in the phase. It's not always because of a bad healer, it's also about learning to be good too.

[Kitfox]

Actually it does make a difference, it's an inconvenience to the tank and you'll probably find the boss spinning toward the healer..

This will not happen, ever. Unless the tank doesn't do anything, or all their gear is broken or they're naked.

Let's take a PLD in Shield Oath using Shield Lob. At i258 mine does around 600 damage. That's 600 * 3 (hate mod) * 2.7 (stance mod) = 4860 enmity. At the same instant, a Regen tick would have to hit for over 9720 to make the boss spin. For reference, my pesky i248 WHM heals roughly 2400 hp per tick with DS+Regen. To be fair, it's probably possible to get a 10k regen tick if you stack every imaginable healing buff there is and get a critical tick, but that would be as silly as precasting Medica II.

I've never seen a regen make a boss spin as a healer, or as a tank. You can call it a novice's opinion, but I just don't see it being mathematically possible under normal circumstances.

[fantasticm]

No one said you have to be legendary, and it's not okay for anyone to be playing bad. But the running regen, snap aggro scenario is something any tank should learn to handle anyway because there are these similar scenarios in end-game extreme content, and it's not always because a healer is playing subpar.

Picking up adds from party members - for whatever reason - is something that all tanks should learn and know how to do, yes. That's not really the argument here, though. The issue is that, when it's avoidable, tanks shouldn't have to deal with it. Pre-casting HoTs is a bad habit that should be corrected.

[GraumSenpai]

Wait... for real? This is a problem for tanks? 1 tick of regen or one tick of Medica II on party is easily eliminated by the tank if they just do their aggro rotation... or better yet just shield lob or equivalent... I've never stolen aggro from the tank in 8 man content if I start with a AoE regen (I never do... AoE shield sure but thats precasted normally... regen on tank however I have that puppy up the entire encounter or almost the entire encounter). If the healer is holding aggro over you with regens then either your severely undergeared, in lvl 30 dungeon content, or not properly using your class... Regen builds a very small amount of aggro.

[Cynfael]

The discussion isn't about regen effects "stealing" aggro from tanks; it's about healers applying regen unnecessarily before the tank has the opportunity to pull, which can cause sloppy pulls and create needless extra work for the tank.

Personally I love it when the tank tags all mobs as they pull so that I can safely refresh their shield, but ticking regen is something they shouldn't have to compensate for or click off.

[Canadane]

I will always click off a Regen if I'm not done pulling.
No need to cause a commotion, it's never been brought up by a healer, and I've never felt like I've needed to say something about it.

It's just something I do to correct positioning of mobs during a pull. Life moves on.

[lulunami]

Try to avoid Medica II pre-pull as it is not needed. Regen on main tank pre-pull on a boss is okay. That means you can apply Aero III as the tank first hits the boss.

If you play with a DRK main tank, you want to reduce the amount of enmity you create if possible. Good DRK will try to drop tank stance as soon as possible in order to do good DPS. The more excess healing you create, the lower the DRK's DPS will be as they have to use a lower DPS rotation in order to keep hate.

[Truefaith87]

Since this seems to have derailed a bit, I will just use an example that happened recently on a 8-man content, specifically Creator 4 in this case. 2 WHM, myself on DRK (253, so NOT undergeared like some described), OT PLD, both of them throw out a Medica 2 before the pull even begins. I drop both Medica 2 and leave the regens (they don't produce much), but noone else in the party does as they jump in after I barely Unmend and Plunge into Alex Prime. For some reason one of the WHM at this point begins nearly spamming Medica and healing everyone more, when NOONE except me is taking damage, all of the regens ticking plus the overhealing factors cause him to pull hate and hit the whole party with a Divine Spear, dropping everyone to about 5% HP. This makes him spam even more heals, never looking at emnity charts to use Shroud of Saints to drop the emnity he had, eats the tank buster, dies, spends the next 3 minutes NOT accepting Raises and instead b***hing out the party until we wipe, and then cusses us all out, and leaves. Was I glad to see that toxic attitude leave? Yes. Does that excuse not trying to watch ones own emnity as well during times where you need to spam heals? Not in my eyes. In any grade of content, I just feel everyone should do their part to make it as comfortable as possible OVERALL, each pulling their own weight. In no way am I asking for perfection, just for people to at least use logic in their actions.

[Kitfox]

For some reason one of the WHM at this point begins nearly spamming Medica

That's less about the precasted HoTs and more about that particular WHM just being bad.

[Tremara]

To pre-HoT is a bad habit I see often in 24-man-content or trials via dutyfinder. There is absolut no benefit of pre-casting Regen or Medica II and I assume this healers are either lazy or have no clue about healing.
Oh well, in the end it doesn't really matter but in content like Weeping City where most people play like they never played FFXIV before, pre-HoTs can kill the healer.