Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

[Fluffernuff]

Yeah, so when I MT and I die and the OT takes over, when I get revived I never take back the boss immediately because I have the weakness debuff now and therefore by definition am now the worse candidate for MT. So instead I do the OT job while I watch for trouble, ready to retake MT only if there's an emergency. I'm not really sure why you would want to do anything else.

I know it's not the same as 24 man content, but I'll usually have the "honor" of being MT on a11 and DF healers tend to get me killed on a regular basis so I'll be OT with weakness.... and then the MT stands out in the open with propeller wind... so even though I have weakness, I'll 'voke off the now confused MT so the boss isnt being run and spun around like a headless chicken.


On that note, got a little RNG screwed when rolling for my alex pieces today to gear up my alt. on DRK through them all, only got WARs. OK, theyre always in deliverance and never budge. except this particular batch of WAR this week drove me a bit batty. Got a bit of a rant/PSA/whatever you want to call it.

WAR does more damage as an OT, yes, but if you're spamming 3-4x Butcher Block for every Storm's Eye combo, you're a terrible OT and you don't even understand WHY WAR is a better OT.
"But BB is muh damerg combo! WAR SMASH!"
Your damage combo is now locking me into Grit, AND forcing me to stick to my emnity combo, so not only am I losing 20% DPS now to stay in the MT slot, but I'm losing extra DPS every time i can't DA+SE or Delirium.
Using Storm's Path isnt a 20%+ loss every time you lose a freaking BB combo.
Your Damage isn't worth screwing over the MT.
Use your utility. Stop spamming BB. You're better than that.

I don't usually have issues with WAR OT because most of them understand the basic reasoning way WAR is in OT slot by level 60. but this week? the 16 or so runs I had to do of just a11/a12? not a single war used Path... once. they let Eye fall off in favor of more BB.

Why?

[Chocolys]

Except, a healer dpsing in addition to a DPS dpsing is beneficial. Whereas a titan-egi tanking in addition to a tank tanking is not beneficial.

I was not being serious, but what I mean what specifically about the complaint.

I don't see the reason for a DPS to complain about a healer not dpsing in a random duty group. Because if there is not enough DPS as so far as for reaching a point when a DPS has to complaint about it, then it's really a DPS problem in the first place and they should instead DPS better themselves instead of directing DPS issue at the healer. (That's where my "tank + Titan-Egi" came from, as in if a tank has issue keeping the aggro, and complaining the Summoner is not helping by not using Titan-Egi.)

For sure, if a healer can afford it, it can be beneficial, but that's just a bonus, not a requirement when doing a duty matched-up with random peoples (if you're in a pre-made group, then makes whatever rules you want).
As long as everyone is doing his job efficiently, tank tanking ,DPS DPSing, and Heal Healing, then the Duty will be cleared, so why throwing stones at a random healer because he did not DPS? Just because the duty took 2 more minutes to be completed?

[Kaurie]

I was not being serious, but what I mean what specifically about the complaint.


I don't see the reason for a DPS to complain about a healer not dpsing in a random duty group. Because if there is not enough DPS as so far as for reaching a point when a DPS has to complaint about it, then it's really a DPS problem in the first place and they should instead DPS better themselves instead of directing DPS issue at the healer. (That's where my "tank + Titan-Egi" came from, as in if a tank has issue keeping the aggro, and complaining the Summoner is not helping by not using Titan-Egi.)

For sure, if a healer can afford it, it can be beneficial, but that's just a bonus, not a requirement when doing a duty matched-up with random peoples (if you're in a pre-made group, then makes whatever rules you want).

I may have missed it earlier? I don't think most DPS complain about healers DPSing due to missing DPS checks, do they? My thoughts was more just complaining that the healer isn't DPSing, because they're being lazy. It's like someone complaining that a BLM isn't using Enochian or something.

As long as everyone is doing his job efficiently, tank tanking ,DPS DPSing, and Heal Healing, then the Duty will be cleared, so why throwing stones at a random healer because he did not DPS? Just because the duty took 2 more minutes to be completed?

You answered your own question. One will complain, because they are wasting someone's time by being lazy.

Do I complain? Nah, not worth the effort, nor do I feel that them wasting 2 minutes of my time is worth me making them have a cruddy day. That said, I see no reason why they shouldn't be helping out.

[Chocolys]

<sniped>..
You answered your own question. One will complain, because they are wasting someone's time by being lazy.

Or maybe they don't feel comfortable enough to do it, or just don't like it.

I think thats where we disagree on the whole conception of the Duty Finder in the first place. When I choose to use the Duty finder, I hope to enjoy a good time with the other players. I'm not looking at the Duty Clock, I just want an agreable run.

Most of the times I'm a healer in Duty (and I do DPS if I feel safely comfortable about it, but thats not the point), and I REALLY don't care if the Tank or DPS are not using the rotations to the best they could technically do, as long as they are doing enough to keep the progression going.
Same if I'm not the healer, and the healer is not DPSing, as long as he keeps everyone alive.
And if somehow I end up in a hard wiping group, I don't mind either way if everyone is really trying their current best to clear and are not just jerking around, as long as everyone stays cool about it.

I don't consider others just as a mean to finish what I want to do in the fastest way possible. I just want to have nice time with the group and I'm tolerant with the playstyle of others as I wish they're tolerant with mine as long as someone is not badly impacting the group (And a healer not dpsing is not, unless special cases).

The best duty runs I had were never the fastest. But they were the ones where everyone takes the time to greet each other and not just rush silently. The ones where sometimes jokes are thrown around, or some unexpected conversation happens. For me time is not the issue, the behaviour is. I rather play with a slower group, than a group composed of people starting arguments with, or moaning about others for a little inefficiency.

PS: I have absolutly nothing against speed optimized runs where healer might DPS the best they could, but that's a thing for a pre-made group. It should not be systematically expected from a randomly matched group where each of the players might enjoy the game differently, and as long as they're efficient enough at their role.

[Kaurie]

Or maybe they don't feel comfortable enough to do it, or just don't like it.

I think thats where we disagree on the whole conception of the game in the first place. When I choose to use the Duty finder, I hope to enjoy a good time with the other players. I'm not looking at the Duty Clock, I just want an agreable run.

The issue comes down to what you find fun. I personally find it very unfun when the runs go slower, for no reason.

I also have a hard time believing that a healer who does the current expert roulette, and does not DPS, experiences anything remotely to fun. As I mentioned earlier, you literally need to do less than 20% of your healing capabilities to keep everyone alive. That's a regen, or a faerie. After that, you just can sit there with a dumb look on your face, or you can DPS. There is literally nothing else to do.

Most of the times I'm a healer in Duty (and I do DPS if I feel safely comfortable about it, but thats not the point), and I REALLY don't care if the Tank or DPS are not using the rotations to the best they could technically do, as long as they are doing enough to keep the progression going.
Same if I'm not the healer, and the healer is not DPSing, as long as he keeps everyone alive.
And if somehow I end up in a hard wiping group, I don't mind either way if everyone is really trying their current best to clear and are not just jerking around, as long as everyone stays cool about it.

I honestly have less of a problem with a DPS who sucks, because they don't know their rotation, than I do with a healer who just sits around and does nothing. I also don't really have a problem with people wiping, it happens.

I don't consider others just as a mean to finish what I want to do in the fastest way possible. I just want to have nice time with the group and I'm tolerant with the playstyle of others as I wish they're tolerant with mine as long as someone is not badly impacting the group (And a healer not dpsing is not, unless special cases).

That makes it sound like you think that I think of other people as tools. I certainly do not. I just want my team to participate as a team. It's like if you play hockey and one guy just leans against boards, and once in awhile will take a shot. He's not fully participating, and is just standing around letting you guys do everything. It's poor team play.

The best duty runs I had were never the fastest. But they were the ones where everyone takes the time to greet each other and not just rush silently. The ones where sometimes jokes are thrown around, or some unexpected conversation happens. For me time is not the issue, the behaviour is. I rather play with a slower group, than a group composed of people starting arguments with, or moaning about others for a little inefficiency.

Usually, the runs that are slower are the ones that people don't speak - in my experience. Most often, people are very friendly in my fast runs and we chat as we terrorize the place. I suspect that is partly due to the fact that the people going slower and probably watching Netflix or something, hence the slower run. I do agree, that I'd prefer a group that is funny and fun, than one that is fast. I don't want people who intentionally hold down the team for no reason, though.

PS: I have absolutly nothing against speed optimized runs where healer might DPS the best they could, but that's a thing for a pre-made group. It should not be systematically expected from a randomly matched group where each of the players might enjoy the game differently, and as long as they're efficient enough at their role.

This is definitely where we agree to disagree. Not expecting a healer to DPS is not far off from not expecting a BLM to use Enochian, or frankly for a Summoner to use a pet. It's handicapping the team, and there is very little reason to do it other than "I don't want to".

That said, let's agree to disagree. I don't want to hijack this thread more than we already have. If you want to have a final word, though, go ahead.

[Miste]

Memorizing all the mechanics, and knowing when the damage is coming in are completely separate things. You go in, heal 100% uptime, no DPS. You pay attention to when you're doing nothing, and then adapt on your 2nd time in. That doesn't mean you have perfected your understanding of every mechanic.

Well that depends...second time in and get in a group with a squishy undergeared tank that uses no cooldowns and/or can't keep hate then your original experience no longer applies since maybe the first tank was better geared and used cooldowns and kept hate etc.

I would say most healers need more than one time to learn how much DPSing they can get away with based on multiple factors mostly regarding the MT they currently have in the group and the smaller factor of how much people are not avoiding avoidable damage etc.

I believe most healers can learn to toss a bit of DPS though it isn't too bad normally. Like you also said I don't pester other healers who don't though...I just make my personal choice to DPS when I can because I think it is fun

[Texa]

This kept happening earlier

[Frowny]

This VA run was.... something else. Lots of derping and... my co-healer... was wearing tank accessories except for the bracelet. I asked and was told "same reason I'm running VA, for gear". Um.... ok.

Then I lost the minion roll to a 99... I got a 97 ;-;

[Legion88]

This VA run was.... something else. Lots of derping and... my co-healer... was wearing tank accessories except for the bracelet. I asked and was told "same reason I'm running VA, for gear". Um.... ok.

Didn't he realize, that there are no accessoires in 24-mans? oO

[Hrimfaxi]

Didn't he realize, that there are no accessoires in 24-mans? oO

I am guessing he knows that and place tanking accessories to hit the minimum requirement to enter the dungeon.