Liquid Flame is an example of how overly easy things are.

[Brannigan]

because savage is hard? lol

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...t/detail/1642/

?????????

[Lambdafish]

How about this then. Make the story dungeons easy, and the optional dungeons a bit more difficult.
Say, if Xelphatol is 210ilv, then Gubal would be 230ilv. Most people playing casually can reach that and it would allow for a more challenging and fun experience.

This would not work as it would destroy the expert roulette. Why would anyone run the harder dungeon when they could just run the easy one? I still stand by the notion that pharos sirius was never too hard, it was just avoided because it was much harder than the alternatives, so nobody bothered running it, and this would create the same problem.

[Lunafreya]

because savage is hard? lol

It can be because you need to commit to it with your group. You haven't even completed it yet..... neither have I but I don't go around saying it isn't hard.

[SenorPatty]

Next expert dgns should be fog of war rooms, where every room is completely dark until all 4 players get in one. It lights up to reveal some of the random ideas:
- kill all mobs at the same time room

- kill your shadow room

- the fall off the edge or in holes (zoning importance) room

-countdown trap switch room

Make the bosses normal but make it so that reaching them takes coordination and paying attention, since the dark rooms robs everyone the element of anticipation.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

This would not work as it would destroy the expert roulette. Why would anyone run the harder dungeon when they could just run the easy one? I still stand by the notion that pharos sirius was never too hard, it was just avoided because it was much harder than the alternatives, so nobody bothered running it, and this would create the same problem.

And Weeping City further corroborates that theory. People complained for weeks is was too hard and needed a nerf. When the devs flat out said no, people sucked it up because if you wanted those rewards, you had to "git gud." The more content actually demands from players, the more likely they'll perform. Granted, you can only push so far. Gordias Savage being the example of "too far." Had Xelphatol and Gubal been ilvl 235-240, it puts them closer to the current gear levels without going overboard.

[Lambdafish]

And Weeping City further corroborates that theory. People complained for weeks is was too hard and needed a nerf. When the devs flat out said no, people sucked it up because if you wanted those rewards, you had to "git gud." The more content actually demands from players, the more likely they'll perform. Granted, you can only push so far. Gordias Savage being the example of "too far." Had Xelphatol and Gubal been ilvl 235-240, it puts them closer to the current gear levels without going overboard.

Exactly. If you don't give players a mind numbingly easy alternative to standard content, the standard content becomes the new easy. The real problem is the devs lack of a spine when it comes to difficulty and reward distribution, and it is one of the things I hate most in this game.

[basketofseals]

I wish people weren't so derisive towards the topic. Personally I agree. You shouldn't make an encounter that's toothless on release at minimum gear levels.

That isn't to say the mechanics should be overly difficult, but they should be punishing. I think that's one of the main reasons I liked Weeping City so much. The mechanics aren't hard. They REALLY REALLY aren't, but if you don't do them, they'll mess you up in a heartbeat. That's what we should aim for in casual content imo.

[Kaurie]

I wish people weren't so derisive towards the topic. Personally I agree. You shouldn't make an encounter that's toothless on release at minimum gear levels.

That isn't to say the mechanics should be overly difficult, but they should be punishing. I think that's one of the main reasons I liked Weeping City so much. The mechanics aren't hard. They REALLY REALLY aren't, but if you don't do them, they'll mess you up in a heartbeat. That's what we should aim for in casual content imo.

Honestly, it doesn't even have to be hard - just engaging and interesting.

[Lisotte]

Problem is, dungeons in ex roulette are the #1 activity players tend to do at lvl 60 and they really need to be engaging, and/or challenging. If they're challenging you actually have to put some effort into beating them. If they're engaging, you have to think about how to beat them. As it is, they're neither, and so all dungeons are snoozefests at this point. At least back in the lvl 50 dungeon speedrun era you could make it fun by seeing just how much you could pull at one time and still survive.

What I'd really like is a return of Amdapor Keep difficulty again. It felt far worse back then because that, WP, CM and Prae were literally the only things you'd do that weren't primals or coil, but I really miss that feeling that maybe someone was going to miss a silence on the bees, get knocked off, or fck up on the final boss. Dungeons could really go a lot better if they weren't so damn toothless.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Admapor Keep was hard because all the gear we had were barely sufficient back then. As we got stronger gear, the dungeon became trivial like everything else. Nothing is going to stay difficult forever unless something has a butt ton of mechanics.