About SCH and co-healing and DPS optimization

[Fernosaur]

I've run into a bit of a dilemma lately with my raid group. I am a big defender of the utility Eos provides as a powerful healer on her own right, and how that utility trumps Selene's DPS boost contribution by a lot because her CDs can actually help both healers DPS more while keeping tank and party health at healthy and optimal levels.

However, recently I've realized that most of the times, my use of Whispering Dawn and Fey Illumination is kind of unnecessary because muscle memory and habits tends to make them or me top the party off even as WD ticks and no incoming raidwide is coming, and they also prefer not to meld Accuracy on their gear in pro of Critical and Piety by the mindset that they're the main healer, which makes it so that the extra DPS windows they could have thanks to Eos are heavily nerfed because of the misses.

So my question is, now that I've realized Eos and her healing won't contribute much in the way of letting the other healer DPS more, should I keep her in order to boost my own DPS even further and leave the other healer to mostly solo and throw a WD on cd for the tank and FI for heavy raidwides? Or should I just make away with her and use Selene while contributing more direct healing myself when necessary?

I'm not entirely sure which of those would be more optimal for raid DPS, so I come for advice.



PD. Please don't come with messages criticizing the other healer, please, as what I'm trying to do is adapt my own gameplan to their mindset and playstyle to push for a more optimal raid performance.

Thanks in advance!

[FoxyAreku]

Selene is always better once you are comfortable with a fight. She doesn't heal any less than Eos does either except when Eos uses whispering dawn, which doesn't last that long anyway and it's very rare it's ever needed, especially once your co-healer is comfortable enough with a fight to heal unavoidable raid damage on their own.

Fey Covenant is sometimes useful though, but it's a very long cooldown and it's rare that the extra mitigation is actually needed, so I feel meh about it.

Though on another note, I use a macro that basically forces Selene to spam Embrace on the main tank while I DPS, maybe you could try that.

[lulunami]

Eos can be worth it if will save the main-healer a GCD or so from having to heal. Rouse + Whispering Dawn is basically used in place of Medica II/Aspected Helios from WHM/AST. Fey Illumination can possibly save the main-healer some MP. If you coordinate stuff like substituting Whispering Dawn for Medica II, and Indomiablity for Medica/Collective Unconscious, you can give the WHM/AST a few more GCDs in Cleric Stance.

However, over a long fight, Selene might be a bigger raid party DPS increase depending upon how much DPS your tanks and your other damage-dealers do. Haste from Fey Wind is underrated in my humble opinion.

[Yona87]

You can actually solo heal as SCH with Eos in A11S.
Eos is extremely potent if used well.

[DotsNnots]

Hrm, I mean, it's hard to talk about optimization when your co-healer refuses to do all the things that would be the most optimal. It's not even your opinion vs. theirs, there are plenty of logs and examples out there to back this up.

Eos's healing ability is far far superior to selene. Not because she "heals" more with whispering dawn, but because fey illum and fey covenant also can save a ton of mana and some GCDs because they're essentially a free mantra (or divine seal) and mitigation you can apply with CS still up and dpsing away.

I think your biggest optimization issue here is lack of communication. It seems like your co-healer wants to solo heal the fights while you stay in cleric stance, even if that doesn't make sense. If that's the case all you can do is keep communicating. "Hey co-healer, I will always use whispering dawn after this-specific-mechanic raid damage goes out. There isn't another raid-wide hit incoming before it falls off, so don't top people off there as it's a waste of your mana, the HoT will do it. Use the time to do something else!" And when they say "but I can just top everyone off." Remind them that, "you can, but this skill costs me nothing to apply, I can stay in Cleric Stance while using it, and you can focus on your DPS that needs improvement, or on the incoming tank buster." etc etc.

I think you need to stand your ground on this one. It sounds like your co-healer is stubborn and unwilling to compromise with what's actually been proven to be optimal. The best thing you can do is stand your ground as well and demonstrate how what you're doing and suggesting actually would be the most optimal if they would cooperate.

The short answer to your question is, I don't think you can be optimal if your co-healer is unwilling to adapt in the way that you're willing to. Raids are all about collaboration and cooperation!

[Lastelli]

It really depends on the encounter and the way damage is done to the party. But in general, Eos allows both healers to contribute much more to raid dps if used correctly. The (potential) dps increase of both healers largely outweights the meager 3% speed boost provided by Selene. The problem is that you need a very good party and two exceptional healers, both able to take advantage of Eos' amazing healing skills in order to maximize their own personal dps (and willing to do so), to achieve better results. Thus, most scholars understandably just prefer using Selene.
Indeed, in your case I think you'd be better off simply using Selene.

[Llynd]

Depends on the fight, but on simple fights where healing isn't required much like a9s, Well i would only spam Embrace anyway so better use Selene to increase everyone's dps ( whm included).

[Fernosaur]

The short answer to your question is, I don't think you can be optimal if your co-healer is unwilling to adapt in the way that you're willing to. Raids are all about collaboration and cooperation!

Yeah, we actually discussed things further and they're just having trouble adapting in general because our old SCH wasn't very... communicative or supportive at all. I replaced him after we, unfortunately, had to boot him. My current co-healer is still trying to change their playstyle to more cooperative efforts, but is struggling a bit with old habits born out of necessity. For example, our old SCH absolutely refused to use Eos at all. Even through progression in fights with heavy heal checks.

Anyways! My post was mostly asking of learned opinions that would give the most optimal answer possible within this current dilemma, which, as I figured, Eos still outweights Selene by a mile.

In any case, thanks guys, I appreciate the support. I have talked more with my co-healer and we'll be working more closely to try and get rid of their old habits, so there's a happy ending to the story.

[FoxyAreku]

Anyways! My post was mostly asking of learned opinions that would give the most optimal answer possible within this current dilemma, which, as I figured, Eos still outweights Selene by a mile.

In any case, thanks guys, I appreciate the support. I have talked more with my co-healer and we'll be working more closely to try and get rid of their old habits, so there's a happy ending to the story.

That...isn't actually true and most of the people in this thread so far have said the opposite would be more beneficial for your situation, but I'm still happy you and your co-healer worked things out anyway.

[Nicobo]

But every DPS request Selena... have you asked your DPS?? ^^;