Extensive Feedback: Healing in The Feast (4v4 Solo)

[FreeKingStefan]

Fluid Aura + Repose is broken. WHM having access to not one, but two huge CC abilities that do not share a DR with most other classes is a huge disadvantage to SCH and AST in higher level play. Give SCH and AST something similar, or change their effects for WHM in PvP.

Without either of these, you would see zero white mage players. That is the staple of their role in PVP (the control), as their healing is much more difficult to maintain and survive with compared to AST or SCH.

[Koltik]

Without either of these, you would see zero white mage players. That is the staple of their role in PVP (the control), as their healing is much more difficult to maintain and survive with compared to AST or SCH.

No, their staple is healing. Divine Seal. Tetra. Benediction. Asylum. Sacred Prism. POM. Their role is healing, not control. Just like AST and SCH. There is 0 reason for them to get a knock back + bind that has 0 risk for the WHM and can be abused to counter other healers who have 0 defense against it, and 0 counter.

[FreeKingStefan]

No, their staple is healing. Divine Seal. Tetra. Benediction. Asylum. Sacred Prism. POM. Their role is healing, not control. Just like AST and SCH. There is 0 reason for them to get a knock back + bind that has 0 risk for the WHM and can be abused to counter other healers who have 0 defense against it, and 0 counter.

There are several counters to Fluid Aura and Repose...

Push Back, Fetter Ward, Purify x4, Tempered Will, Warden's Paen, Esuna/Leeches/Exalted...

Have you played WHM before, Koltik? They are nothing without their CC. You will never have the opportunity to get a cast off without self-peel.

[Koltik]

There are several counters to Fluid Aura and Repose...

Push Back, Fetter Ward, Tempered Will, Warden's Paen, Esuna/Leeches/Exalted...

Have you played WHM before, Koltik? They are nothing without their CC. You will never have the opportunity to get a cast off without self-peel.

I'm sorry, but what? Other healers get access to absolutely none of these while they are slept.

Regarding purify, sure I'll waste it on a sleep so that I can get stun locked and killed. That makes a ton of sense.

Sleep isn't even the main issue. Being able to fluid to guarantee a heal interrupt, and possibly bind behind a wall with 0 risk to the WHM in question is the problem. It wouldn't be if other healers had a counter, or if they could do the same, but that is not the case. Hence the imbalance. All healers can heal. Only WHM can interrupt via KB + a potential bind out of LoS every 45s oGCD, only WHM can sleep. If Prism is up then it's a sure thing the WHM has time to sleep.

What do you call Astro by the way? They get casts off without fluid and sleep, why can't WHM? Don't even say they can spam AB, because we all know that is worthless against good DPS. The only reason to AB is to get a buffer if noct, or regen up if diurn. Anything else is a waste of a GCD and will set you up to not being able to keep up with heals vs good DPS , which is what you get as a top rank. Hence my post, saying this is especially a problem at high-level play.

[FreeKingStefan]

I'm sorry, but what? Other healers get access to absolutely none of these while they are slept.

I'm sorry, but this feedback is not meant to open discussion based on the balance between healers, it is meant to open discussion about how the game systems of The Feast drive people away from playing the healer role, and my suggested fixes to make healing (and therefore learning how to heal) a bit less insane. So naturally, I thought you were speaking in terms of how white mage is too hard to deal with from the perspectives from all jobs, not just the other healers.

That said, yes, White Mage is the strongest of the three healers dude to its CC. However, the other two healers are much stronger at healing under pressure. SCH has free heals from Eos which are about equal to a ticking regen, and can be paired with whispering dawn. In addition to this, their Adloqium shields provide a bit of a buffer to get off more Adloqium casts to provide a constant stream of healing while getting pounded. To top that off, SCH has lustrates much more readily available than Tetragrammaton or Essential Dignity. Astrologian has Aspected Benefic in their arsenal, which is incredible for keeping yourself up while LOS-kiting back and forth around walls, or around pillars. Pair this with Essential Dignity, Lightspeed, and your choice of built in HOT stacking or shields? AST does a great job of surviving on their own.

WHM, without their CC, only have their HOTs and hard casts outside of a 5 minute benediction CD or a 1 minute Tetragrammaton CD. This is supplemented periodically by hard-cast kiting with assistance from POM, Equanimity, and Surecast.

As for your example of how badly WHM counters healers with fluid and sleep...Have you considered that you may be out of position and opening yourself up as an easy CC target? Any healer should be able to LOS enemy BLM/WHM to a great extent. And if you are getting chain slept with a fluid aura weaved in, that WHM is either blowing all their OGCDs to guarantee you are slept and that their team doesn't die...Or your team is not applying enough pressure which allows the WHM to "win more" and close out the game with intelligent CC's.

[Koltik]

As for your example of how badly WHM counters healers with fluid and sleep...Have you considered that you may be out of position and opening yourself up as an easy CC target? Any healer should be able to LOS enemy BLM/WHM to a great extent. And if you are getting chain slept with a fluid aura weaved in, that WHM is either blowing all their OGCDs to guarantee you are slept and that their team doesn't die...Or your team is not applying enough pressure which allows the WHM to "win more" and close out the game with intelligent CC's.

So you want me to stop hard casting my Bene 2 heals to run away from a whm who is running up to me to use their insta cast oGCD, and consequently let my DPS die while I am running from said healer? Or maybe I should sprint from him, and then not have it available when the DPS do a hard switch to me? Or maybe I should let the WHM chase me away from my team altogether, out of range from them, and then he just swift sleeps me there? Even better. I'll run from said WHM into my teammates, right ontop of the enemy DPS and tank, who can then easily swap to me and kill me.

There is no justifying whm having Fluid Aura, or sleep for that matter. It has no place in PvP.

[Nakanishi]

So you want me to stop hard casting my Bene 2 heals to run away from a whm who is running up to me to use their insta cast oGCD, and consequently let my DPS die while I am running from said healer?

If it's gotten to the point where the WHM has ample time to chase you around then there isn't enough pressure coming from your team, or any at all depending on how long you as an AST is kiting a WHM. In the situation in which you are kiting a WHM as an AST, AST can still heal while kiting while WHM is left with oGCDs and non-intial healing regen. Kiting a WHM just gives you the advantage. Also, take into consideration AST cards, 5/6 of them are useful in PvP.

[Slib]

No, their staple is healing. Divine Seal....

You do realize SCH and Astro can do as much pressure as White Mage, right? Scholar has the ability to apply Miasma on targets, reducing healing done to them. This would set back a healer by a lot, especially when Stefan is 100% right about not being able to heal through raw damage even while standing there spamming your biggest cure spells.

Astro also brings cards to the table which also can enhance the parties DPS or apply more survival.

White Mage also relies on Fluid Aura to relieve instant pressure off of them while being chased. You aren't going to be able to move and heal much as White Mage as opposed to a SCH or Astro.

If you got rid of CC for White Mage, they would be useless in PvP.

[Koltik]

You do realize SCH and Astro can do as much pressure as White Mage, right? Scholar has the ability to apply Miasma on targets, reducing healing done to them. This would set back a healer by a lot, especially when Stefan is 100% right about not being able to heal through raw damage even while standing there spamming your biggest cure spells.
Astro also brings cards to the table which also can enhance the parties DPS or apply more survival.

White Mage also relies on Fluid Aura to relieve instant pressure off of them while being chased. You aren't going to be able to move and heal much as White Mage as opposed to a SCH or Astro.

If you got rid of CC for White Mage, they would be useless in PvP.

You're not wrong in the sense that AST and SCH both have abilities to affect healers, however as mentioned already these are mitigating effects, not hard counter effects. WHM is the only class that can stop healing entirely for extended periods of time. This is not fair gameplay by any stretch of the imagination.

Everyone keeps going back to the fact that FA is needed to relieve pressure. I disagree. Last I checked WHM can Blizz 2 just like SCH / AST, they can sprint just like SCH/AST, and they can heavy just like AST. They also have Prism, which we all know is the best PvP ability for healers. They can also LOS, just like SCH/AST, and have three regens that they can use to keep topped off while LOSing / Kiting DPS.

[Slib]

You're not wrong in the sense that AST and SCH...

That is very true that White Mage can shut other healers down, but that also comes with other classes and their roles too.

For instance, a ninja and their 12 second bind that hasn't been reduced to 8 seconds. If they use this on dps, that's 12 seconds of being absolutely useless. DRG and MNK can't do this.

Paladin being able to shut people down for 7 seconds each every minute and doesn't break on damage. This is insane utility that other's can't do.

My point is every job in each role has its own benefit.

But this thread is something totally different. From my understanding what was discussed was lowering the ability for melee to carry groups. I can agree with Stefan that healer has a very hard time being able to carry a group, even with Repose and Fluid Aura. It would help a lot while being CC'd if healers weren't so punished with all of the damage buffs / LB's / Culling / Medals didn't stress them as much.