Mog Station is overpriced.

[Welsper59]

Personally speaking...I have a disposable income and have bought items such as the Odin statue and every mount put on the Mog Station thus far. Despite that I'm concerned by the sheer number of items showing up on the Mog Station. It's definitely increased over time. I would much prefer many of the items to be available in-game. It feels like there's so few in-game rewards to work towards as it is- especially those that are 'mid way' between easy to obtain and a nightmarish grind.

Bolded is definitely a matter of question right now, though the Mog Station being a suspect isn't really a strong one. For a game that tries to cater to many tastes at once, it sure does come up short on that feeling of reward, specifically in non-combat related goods. I mean, yeah, they could have always thrown those Mog Station stuff into the game, but do you really think it'd improve things as far as feeling rewarded?

That's not to say that the game doesn't give us things, because it does, but I think there are at least two things that contribute to the lack of feeling rewarded. 1) The fact that a lot of the new goods we get are either simple "talk to NPC and buy it for small sums of gil", craft or buy it off the MB, or they're part of an already widely acknowledged tedious grind like with MGP. The MGP comment is partly due to how there's already a lot of mass MGP needed items that are mostly overlooked (like Triple Triad gambles or direct cards). 2) They're too narrow of a crowd pleasing item, like hairstyles.

It feels unusual to complain that we can find items that are new as easily as talking to an NPC and spending a few thousand gil on it to get it, but that is all part of a contributing factor to it. I'm not arguing that method of doing things should be removed, but rather that we're also missing that drive to earn a reward. I guess it's the fact we can expect it that dulls it.

My view on the bolded section is that the devs haven't managed to grasp proper rewards for the effort needed. A bit off topic, but I actually think the upcoming PvP season rewards is a step in the right direction to getting that feeling back. When you can simply buy something (especially for chump change), you dull out the impact of it. Likewise with simple tome/MGP/currency rewards, they also dull out the impact of being rewarded when you can measure the span of time until you receive it, most of which is a matter of minutes, if not hours.

[Ametrine]

snip

And yet there is a pretty substantial chunk of players that see the high value, exclusive, time limited Feast rewards as a terrible choice as it's a small niche of content that most either don't enjoy or don't have time to dedicate to (long queue times, oh my!), and only the best (or win trader-est) players can get.

So, you win some, you lose some.

Personally, I'd prefer there to be alt versions for competions, like the missing Red Fenrir verses the Hellhound, but that's just my brain trying to make it fair, but still giving the winners their trophies. Meh.

[Welsper59]

And yet there is a pretty substantial chunk of players that see the high value, exclusive, time limited Feast rewards as a terrible choice as it's a small niche of content that most either don't enjoy or don't have time to dedicate to (long queue times, oh my!), and only the best (or win trader-est) players can get.

So, you win some, you lose some.

Personally, I'd prefer there to be alt versions for competions, like the missing Red Fenrir verses the Hellhound, but that's just my brain trying to make it fair, but still giving the winners their trophies. Meh.

To that end, I say it's a matter of reality checking in. No MMORPG has ever made general purpose goods (like minions or mounts) exclusively available in a specific format. In other words, the goods have never been only available in a means available to everyone, with or without some form of compensation. Collectors and achievement hunters are a burden upon themselves, especially with MMORPGs (source: me from over a decade ago).

"Pets/minions have never been exclusive or limited!" says the pet/minion collector, overlooking the fact that many pets or minions they have are exactly that. The idea that future collectors are instantaneously screwed out of their 100% collection attempts does not once cross their mind because the very idea would make them hypocrites to their own argument.

The methodology that one obtains the limited goods is not a valuable complaint when the primary argument is against the limited time of it, rather than the means of it. Again, an argument that can be shown as entitlement and hypocrisy. Especially when the collector mentality is not exclusive to minions in this game or any other. It can be literally anything. At that point, where does one draw the line of who wins, and who loses for their collecting efforts?

Alternative versions are generally fun, including runner up rewards. Breed competition among players. It's healthy. I guarantee though, given that damn PvP topic, the fact that it'd be an "either or" and not "both" would bring about an equal number of complaints.

I get that today's society is also vehemently rampant with anxiety issues, but that should never be a significant limiting factor on design goals. I have my own issues with anxiety, but I prefer to see games made without overly worrying about care bear and entitled players, even if it may not be something I'm willing to participate in. There's something enlightening about devs not caving in to the incessant complaining that takes place daily.

[SenorPatty]

Its so beautiful seeing people coming to an understanding toward another.

I'm not crying. Just got something in my eye is all.

[Ametrine]

Good Stuff

One thing about the nature of collecting is it gives you a nice goal to work towards, so I understand the intense disappointment that players who make part of their day to day FFXIV time working towards the next minion/mount/vanity/furniture suddenly see their dreams dashed for a new design decision to lock something behind a grind they can't do.

And half the problem with PVP is it's time consumption. The queue times can take over an hour, and you still need to do it enough to be good at it for the minion and mounts locked behind it.

There is also the fact many collectibles can't be traded among players, so you can't simply save up gil for them.

That's disheartening.

[Dualgunner]

One thing about the nature of collecting is it gives you a nice goal to work towards, so I understand the intense disappointment that players who make part of their day to day FFXIV time working towards the next minion/mount/vanity/furniture suddenly see their dreams dashed for a new design decision to lock something behind a grind they can't do.

And half the problem with PVP is it's time consumption. The queue times can take over an hour, and you still need to do it enough to be good at it for the minion and mounts locked behind it.

There is also the fact many collectibles can't be traded among players, so you can't simply save up gil for them.

That's disheartening.

Wouldn't the queue times be better if people who wanted the item queued up for it regularly?

How much do they really *want* the item if they're unwilling to do what it takes to get the item? What incentives can the devs give for PVP that won't piss off the PVE fans?

/devilsadvocate

[Welsper59]

One thing about the nature of collecting is it gives you a nice goal to work towards, so I understand the intense disappointment that players who make part of their day to day FFXIV time working towards the next minion/mount/vanity/furniture suddenly see their dreams dashed for a new design decision to lock something behind a grind they can't do.

And half the problem with PVP is it's time consumption. The queue times can take over an hour, and you still need to do it enough to be good at it for the minion and mounts locked behind it.

There is also the fact many collectibles can't be traded among players, so you can't simply save up gil for them.

That's disheartening.

As a collector, time is not always a factor if you're serious about your collecting efforts. Neither is the means of getting it. If you're not capable of getting 100% completion within a game, including the ability to be the best of the best (world first, pvp top ranks, etc), you should not set your expectations so high in an MMORPG usually. Unlike most single player games, game events and other players are your uncontrolled 3rd variable.

Again, it's just reality checking in that this game is not made exclusive for a given individuals wants. Reality is not always kind, so it absolutely can be disheartening, but it is what it is lol. If you can't devote the time idling for a queue, you're not dedicated enough compared to other collectors who are, and they WILL be the ones to get what you won't. If those queues are literally an impossibility, dedicated collectors will hop servers to ones with better queue or better odds of winning. Likewise if you have the time, but are inept in the medium to accomplish the requirement.

[Talraen]

Again, it's just reality checking in that this game is not made exclusive for a given individuals wants. Reality is not always kind, so it absolutely can be disheartening, but it is what it is lol. If you can't devote the time idling for a queue, you're not dedicated enough compared to other collectors who are, and they WILL be the ones to get what you won't. If those queues are literally an impossibility, dedicated collectors will hop servers to ones with better queue or better odds of winning. Likewise if you have the time, but are inept in the medium to accomplish the requirement.

Games are for escaping reality, not being crushed by it. And there's a good chance that when this season of the Feast is over, there won't be anyone on any server with a full minion collection (or even the possibility of one). There are just too few Feast winners and too few hardcore collectors, not to mention that the venn diagram of the two may not overlap at all.

[Ametrine]

Wouldn't the queue times be better if people who wanted the item queued up for it regularly?

How much do they really *want* the item if they're unwilling to do what it takes to get the item? What incentives can the devs give for PVP that won't piss off the PVE fans?

/devilsadvocate

That's fair, and it's unknown how many players would suddenly join PVP for collectibles, and it may make it instant, but even if you remove queue times, there is the giant issue in that only the top ranked players will get the items. That's a massive turn off right there, since it can feel hopeless to players who don't PVP.

And to answer your second question, the exclusive gear with stats tailored for PVP. Many players so-so at PVP have happily grinded out and earned that gear for vanity purposes. Anyone can earn that stuff at their own pace since wolf marks don't expire.

[Welsper59]

Games are for escaping reality, not being crushed by it. And there's a good chance that when this season of the Feast is over, there won't be anyone on any server with a full minion collection (or even the possibility of one). There are just too few Feast winners and too few hardcore collectors, not to mention that the venn diagram of the two may not overlap at all.

As you say, games are for escaping reality, but when you overlook the fact that they're still made by real people within real constraints and direction that may not run parallel to your own, you're not going to escape it. Wants are always going to be crushed when you forget or neglect that simple fact. That's what people call being "unreasonable" or in some cases "ignorant" lol.

I'd honestly wager that they'll bring those minions/mounts back in some form as time goes on. Given the nature of the rarity of it, it won't just be handed out, as some folks may want it to, but that in future seasons you'll still need to place, but maybe not as high. Perhaps it'll be a matter of, at worst, a set of rewards to choose from for the top ranks.