Game is ruined (FFXIV 2.0)

[Crevox]

None of this stuff is set in stone. If people create well informed organized threads against certain aspects they will most likely changes aspects of them. All of that crap said "underdevelopment" just sayin. Interface looks like SWTOR's version of the wow ui since TOR is just a wow clone with a bioware decision tree.

I agree, but my personal opinion is not everyone's opinion, as we have clearly seen thus far. They say they already have a test version of the 2.0 server structure running. How much of this is already set in stone? They're determined to make sure this game succeeds, but are they really going to adjust such large-scale plans? We're seriously going to need feedback rolling in, and my feedback does not seem to coincide with anyone else here.

Also, agreed about the UI.

The reason their adding acheivements? To be on ps3 you have to have achievements, plain and simple. So they needed to probably add more that could be converted to the ps3 version.

PS3 has trophies, which are achievements yeah.... but they said that they are implementing over 300. It's definitely not because of trophies.

[Wynn]

To each their own but I am so fekkin excited right now, I can barely contain myself

[Crevox]

One of my huge *personal* disappoints with the update is what seems to be a lack of summoner:

Summoning system that awards the ability to summon primals to Free Companies that defeat them.

Anyone can summon primals? Huh? Or is this just for summoner?

New summoning ability available to certain jobs and classes after version 2.0.

Plural? Multiple? Huh?

And, battle chocobos. Sadness.

[Benediction]

A couple examples of my disgust:

Chocobos fighting with people: EVERYONE HAS A PET. Not only is this somewhat annoying, but it completely ruins the uniqueness of pet classes.
Dungeon finder: While it was good in WoW, it ultimately caused so much problem in the game. There is no community anymore, and no random interaction. To go anywhere or do anything, you just hit the dungeon finder. Random people show up, you don't care about each other, and you get the thing done. I'm all for a ton of help in getting parties formed, but hopefully it doesn't turn out like this.
Achievements can also turn out REALLY BADLY. The majority of WoW's achievements are not fun, interesting or anything. They're massive time dumps so you play more, and give you nothing of value. They're bringing that system here... will they do it right? Probably not, because they said there's over 300.

1. Why is being unique so important to you? Let's face it, we're all the same... we follow everyone else no matter how you look at it. Only kids carry on the notion of being unique.

2. While the dungeon finder did cut down the number of players you'd meet in the game, it didn't cause "so much problems". For those who didnt care about making friends in a game (because a quite large number of these players were either working or had families to take care of), the dungeon finder cut down a substantial amount of time to look for a group. Who the hell finds it fun to spend 3+ hours waiting for a single group? And no, you can't just switch to a class that gets better invites because that would defeat the purpose of playing a game (to play a class you enjoy).

3. As it currently stands, the community in FF MMOs are largely shy and reserved so you will rarely see people strike up random conversations with you out in the open. Hell, people get pissy if you even just talk in /say (let alone talk in /shout). So the "community" in these games are not very cohesive... people usually just stick to their LS buddies or personal cliques (make sense since being introverted you would rarely start up conversations with strangers).

4. Achievements are not meant to have any significance, really. They are only there for some light-hearted fun. If you've seen the achievements in WoW, they come up with some silly stuff. Hell, even the titles for some of these are clever puns and jokes. And frankly, we need some light-hearted goodness in a game where people take every bit of it so seriously.

I dont know what you're talking about when you say "major time dumps" lol Everything and anything from any game is a "major time dump" lol Crevox, you need to step outside your zone and get some perspective.

[Crevox]

1. Why is being unique so important to you? Let's face it, we're all the same... we follow everyone else no matter how you look at it. Only kids carry on the notion of being unique.

You pick a class because you like it and like what they do. If all classes are the same, or all classes do the same general thing, what's the point? It ruins the choice of class. When you're in a party playing with friends, it feels cool to say "I'm the healer, no one else can heal, I'm helpful." Right now, everyone can heal... you're not important, not unique, and can be easily replaced by anyone else.

You agree, too: that would defeat the purpose of playing a game (to play a class you enjoy). I enjoy summoner; I don't care if it's good or not, I want to play it. If everyone has a battle chocobo, it certainly cuts down on the fun factor.

2. While the dungeon finder did cut down the number of players you'd meet in the game, it didn't cause "so much problems". For those who didnt care about making friends in a game (because a quite large number of these players were either working or had families to take care of), the dungeon finder cut down a substantial amount of time to look for a group

It certainly does have its positive aspects. As a healer in 3.1 of WoW, I absolutely loved it. I still think it's great. However, it has numerous negative aspects that would need to be addressed, and with the game's current direction of "do what works in other MMOs", they may not be.

3. As it currently stands, the community in FF MMOs are largely shy and reserved so you will rarely see people strike up random conversations with you out in the open. Hell, people get pissy if you even just talk in /say (let alone talk in /shout). So the "community" in these games are not very cohesive... people usually just stick to their LS buddies or personal cliques (make sense since being introverted you would rarely start up conversations with strangers).

Depends on the server. Currently, my server is not like this.

I dont know what you're talking about when you say "major time dumps" lol Everything and anything from any game is a "major time dump" lol Crevox, you need to step outside your zone and get some perspective.

By time dump, I mean a developer invention for you to specifically spend TONS of time to get something small, but ultimately something you want. It's there to make you want to keep paying for the game. If you played WoW, I would call archaeology a time dump.

[Benediction]

You pick a class because you like it and like what they do. If all classes are the same, or all classes do the same general thing, what's the point? It ruins the choice of class. When you're in a party playing with friends, it feels cool to say "I'm the healer, no one else can heal, I'm helpful." Right now, everyone can heal... you're not important, not unique, and can be easily replaced by anyone else.

lol not sure if you realize that you're playing a massively multiplayer online role playing game.

You agree, too: that would defeat the purpose of playing a game (to play a class you enjoy). I enjoy summoner; I don't care if it's good or not, I want to play it. If everyone has a battle chocobo, it certainly cuts down on the fun factor

Alright so we agree with my point.

It certainly does have its positive aspects. As a healer in 3.1 of WoW, I absolutely loved it. I still think it's great. However, it has numerous negative aspects that would need to be addressed, and with the game's current direction of "do what works in other MMOs", they may not be.

I'd like you to address these "numerous negative aspects" because I aint seeing it. Otherwise I'd say you're pulling one right out of your ass.

Depends on the server. Currently, my server is not like this.

Impossible. I've played FFXI and this game long enough to know that rarely do people strike up random convos. On numerous servers too.

By time dump, I mean a developer invention for you to specifically spend TONS of time to get something small, but ultimately something you want. It's there to make you want to keep paying for the game. If you played WoW, I would call archaeology a time dump.

Alright so achievements in WoW are "major time dumps" but somehow that activity takes precedence over the fact that the major time dumps in this game weren't worse than those? lol

[Quanta]

I quote the systems and content pdf:

Future plans include chocobo gear, rearing, battle, mounted content, and shared chocobos, to be released
sequentially after version 2.0.

Battle chocobos. GG.

This in turn leads to everyone's horsebirds helping to take out primals. Your logic would be sound, if not for the gaping hole where the details are supposed to go.

Dungeon finder was great, but it brought many issues to the game. Square Enix could resolve these and do it right, who knows... but their huge attachment to making this game like others could cloud it.

What issues?

As I said, it didn't destroy the community because the community was still doing what it always did, only it now had access to a new tool it could use to form groups, not to mention all the pick-up raids that continued to go on in spite of it all. And, of course, PvPers just shrugged and went "Whatever," as they continued to kill each other in BGs and Arenas.

"Random interactions", I'm assuming, is meeting random people out in the world, which continued to happen as normal, only now they could suddenly vanish when their queue pops, and pick up where they left off afterwards. Not only that, but if you were talking to them, you could continue to do so via the in-game whisper system. So it's not like they vanished and you were like "Great, I have no one to talk to now," because you could still send them sweet nothings if you were so inclined. But hey, we're inventing imaginary problems, so why not?

As for the randoms you'd get paired up with (assuming you didn't ask anyone in guild or in trade if they wanted to do a dungeon before queuing), I always found most to be decent folk. It could get a little quiet, but quiet doesn't bother me as much as it seem to others, so I didn't really pay it any attention. I'd certainly chat with those who wanted to chat though, and a few people even offered Ventrilo servers to chat on for the duration of a dungeon.

I simply dislike the idea of such silly grind achievements or stupid ones. It's disappointing, yes, but it's not something that ruins the game. It's disappointing because they're taking the effort to copy other games in this respect. How many features do we have to say "oh, you can just ignore that or the bad parts" for the game to be okay?

Here's a thought: they want this game to have a PS3 release at some point in the future, and have wanted it for a while. Sony explicitly requires that all games looking for approval on their platform have achievements/trophies before they'll give their blessing. Ergo, the discussion on whether to have an achievement system or not was a foregone conclusion; it was getting implemented regardless, so they may as well give it to PC players as well.

[Crevox]

lol not sure if you realize that you're playing a massively multiplayer online role playing game.

Yeah, that's fine. Of course there's going to be people of your class, but the situation I was referring to was a small group of friends. If we all start the game as different classes, and all do the same thing, what was the point of being different classes? If we're all different classes, and I'm the summoner, but everyone gets a pet... don't you think I'd be bummed?

You play the class you want to because it's different from the others. When it's not, why bother? Nothing makes it special.

I'd like you to address these "numerous negative aspects" because I aint seeing it. Otherwise I'd say you're pulling one right out of your ass.

The game took a lot of the community feel from the game. Forming groups, talking to people, and all that... while it was annoying at times, it was interaction. Running to dungeons, meeting people on the way, helping people out with a random quest you see them having trouble with... all of that. Dungeon finder is just warp to dungeon, warp back to where you were. You don't travel, you don't seem anyone anywhere. We all just sit in town and press the dungeon finder button to happiness, playing with people on OTHER servers, rarely meeting people on our own.

You can't make friends doing it, and you have no reason to interact with any person you don't know in-game.

Impossible. I've played FFXI and this game long enough to know that rarely do people strike up random convos. On numerous servers too.

I was just in a JP group that I asked to join while they were grinding. They were cool with it. I see people talking in Ul'dah out loud to others... I could chime in and become friends with said person. I could try to find someone to craft something for me, and ultimately become friends with said person. All of this interaction exists on my server and has happened.. to me, at least.

that the major time dumps in this game weren't worse than those? lol

What exists can be improved... them saying they're going to implement something that is bad leads me to give negative feedback in an attempt for them to change or remove it before its implementation. I'm not sure if I can think of any time dumps in game right now besides faction credits, and maybe spirit-bonding. Crafting and gathering take a long time, but it's a different playstyle.

[Crevox]

"Random interactions", I'm assuming, is meeting random people out in the world, which continued to happen as normal, only now they could suddenly vanish when their queue pops, and pick up where they left off afterwards. Not only that, but if you were talking to them, you could continue to do so via the in-game whisper system. So it's not like they vanished and you were like "Great, I have no one to talk to now," because you could still send them sweet nothings if you were so inclined. But hey, we're inventing imaginary problems, so why not?

You had no random interactions because you weren't out in the world, you were sitting in town pressing your magical dungeon finder button. If you DID meet someone in the dungeon, you can't go questing with them, join their guild, do raids, etc... they're on another server. That's the last you're going to see of them. THAT was my point.

This in turn leads to everyone's horsebirds helping to take out primals. Your logic would be sound, if not for the gaping hole where the details are supposed to go.

We don't need the horsebirds, and if the notes are saying that everyone can summon the primals, that only worsens the situation. Let's fight on our own as the classes we chose without the horsebirds and get things done.

I'm going to sleep for now. I'm sure this topic is going to explode with hate, but nothing I can do about it.

[Melian]

Dungeon finder: I agree with not liking this. I think it takes away from server community. On the other hand, server community is pretty weak as is with no one making out of ls parties in the first place...

Achievement system: What's wrong with this? Who cares if it's in wow. You don't even have to look at it. We've basically had one up for the last I don't know how long on lodestone too (character attains lv 50, character defeats dodore, character purchases x with guild marks, etc). It obviously hasn't killed you yet.

In-game addons: These were encouraged in wow, but it's hard to /not/ have them. FFXI certainly had add ons, for better or worse, and you seem pretty happy with that game. 14 already has some (mediocre) parsers. Only difference is stuff might get supported better/you won't risk being banned for it.

Auction house: This is something that was in ffxi as well.... I'll admit to being in the minority that actually likes the wards a lot. But it's hardly going to kill me to just deal with a regular AH instead.

Instanced raids: Instanced raids is just a name. FFXI had them in dynamis. (Also limbus/salvage/einherjar/etc). Stop acting like this is all unique to wow. XI never used the word raid for that, but what's the difference?

Crowd control system: You mean like... staggering sleeps in dynamis? Or dealing with adds on Tiamat? Or having a mage pin down an elemental on Ouryu? WoW's not the only game with crowd control.

Multiple mount types: This does seem like something catering to the wow "i want multiple easy rewards... and i want a dragon.... and i want it to breath fire... and i want it to eat people in pvp" thing. I don't want to see anyone running around in magitec. But that's just me. And one complaint isn't enough to make me quit the game. Besides - there's no way to tell just how many multiple mounts there will be, or how hard they'll be to get, or what they'll do, at this point. So it's a bit foolish to speculate on that ruining things.

SE has resorted to copying other MMOs that have garnered success because they need to make FFXIV not a sunk cost. By doing this, they're giving up the uniqueness that has made the FF MMOs great.

Look at the flip-side. By not copying other successful MMO's FFXIV would run out of money and go out of business (It shouldn't have to be said, but it obviously couldn't keep up free development forever). If FFXIV dies because it refused to take in anything from wow/elsewhere, do you know how many unique features would remain for you to enjoy? None.

I don't mean to imply the game is perfect. Or heading in the right direction. It seems a little bit of a cluster to me at times, with jobs having more abilities than i'd like, and things being a bit faster than I'd like, and there being more versatility than i'd like (yes, i'd like ffxi 2.0). I don't really want to see people spam fighting besides their chocobos either. But a lot of your concerns seem like unnecessary knee-jerk reactions to proposed/upcoming change.