Gm Elrindonar told Momo to post here on a market board issue

[Snow_Princess]

Well here I am again, my sissy posting for me. Anyways me, Momo of balmung found out something about the market board. I hear a lot of people say that know what is going on that gil is worthless and have nothing to do with their millions or even billions of gil.

So my guess this is the reason not many actually go out of thier way to be a 24/7 crafter? I am not sure the reason is but in the end of things, I never seen before how one person has so much power. In wow there is too many people and you have a good chance of selling something there just as long it is a reasonable price for the item. So this makes i very hard for one person controlling it. In FFXI there was the anonymously factor. In FFXI, I think how long something was sitting there end up being a a factor if someone overbid on 2+ prices. On FFXIV, so few people buy and sell things, no matter the level. So it is very easy for one person to control things.

This is where I think the specialist system hurts more then helps. In this situation where there is already a few career crafters, what happens when one person is so into it makes an alt account and have all the specialist crafts anyway? So the person can duel box, hit macros and what not and control all the high end markets. furthermore this allows one account keep spamming undercut while the other crafts, basically having full control of the market board because of so few crafters to begin with, even on a high population server such as mine. On lower population servers I hear horror stories where one person would just keep buying other people's items and hike them, having even more control then what i am experiencing with the 250 items on Balmung. These things take a lot of gil and time to craft, and having to camp the market board on top of this just to get a sale under someone so controlling is an insult.

Can anything be done? did the development team really look into what the specialist system is causing? Do they see the effects it can cause more harm then good? If it did not exist at all, at least more casual people would have options to try get around someone so controlling. For the most part I feel the economic system of FFXIV falls short and I always felt this was a problem 2.0 + where the only way to get real sales is to be the only one selling it. Keep in mind I do get sales, fighting undercutting this person, but I feel to do so wastes so much time and even with that, not many get sales compared to the person in control with the 3 characters, including myself and others. I just feel it is a hypocritical stance to say "Reselling houses for lots of more gil" is a violation, while market board overcontrol isn't.

Anyways Momo (the first person reference of the post) would like to thank GM Elrindonar doing thier best to address this issue and redirecting her here.

[Snow_Princess]

Apparently a different gm felt it was in the wrong section. What are the feelings on how easy it is for one person to control the markets?

[MikeWW]

I think it is possible for a person to control the market, but the main deterrent is that there is no point to keep on accumulating gil for most players. Goldsellers and people whose primary source of income is flipping (buying at low price, jack up price, maybe corner market) are the only people who really benefit from controlling the market. Once the market has been cornered enough, people usually start gathering/running content to to undercut the people trying to corner the market. Admittedly, a persistent player could keep on cornering the market despite this and make a lot of gil, but again there is little real reason to keep on accumulating gil past a certain point.

I don't think the solution is to remove specialist requirements though. By removing specialist requirements, it actually becomes easier for a person to control the market with just one character, since you no longer need to invest time and money into a second character. Someone who crafts a lot can make friends with other crafters to obtain specialist ingredients at reasonable prices, thereby bypassing people trying to corner the market.

IMO, cornering the market by just gathering and crafting a lot should be allowed, unless it is done by a goldseller, in which case please ban. But cornering the market by flipping is just bad, it makes it harder for people to obtain goods, and those flippers gain gil without contributing anything. I believe flippers should be punished, either with suspension, ban, or suspension of some activities like access to marketboard.

[MihaelB]

What I don't get is what purpose do you have beyond 500Mil? Billion? Why?

The highest gil sink is mansions and that won't be accessible I assume on Balmung even if you pay a premium.

Besides that, pentamelds? Do that many players even bother?

And in regards to camping i250s, that's what you get for trying to engage in a hot trending market. Everyone will try to jump in on it and if you want to stay engaged, you'll need to take the 'insults'.

I think the majority of us happily float by 5-100Mil and don't really care enough about economic manipulation as it doesn't affect us that much. It's not like it requires much effort either to pump out 10-20mil if you really try and that's all you'll need to satisfy your spending for a patch assuming you don't splurge on minions/furniture/glamour in the very first week.

[alimdia]

What I don't get is what purpose do you have beyond 500Mil? Billion? Why?

Different strokes for different folks.

Some people enjoy seeing their exp bar go up, some people enjoy seeing their ilevel or damage go up, others enjoy seeing their gil go up, even if they never spend it.

[RyuSaarva]

Different strokes for different folks.

Some people enjoy seeing their exp bar go up, some people enjoy seeing their ilevel or damage go up, others enjoy seeing their gil go up, even if they never spend it.

I don't really care how high my gil mountain grows but that retainer has sold an item message makes me feel happy inside.

[Snow_Princess]

What I don't get is what purpose do you have beyond 500Mil? Billion? Why?

The highest gil sink is mansions and that won't be accessible I assume on Balmung even if you pay a premium.

Besides that, pentamelds? Do that many players even bother?

That is one of the issues I was trying to point out. Not many people bother in continuing trying to make gil though crafting because of this. There is tons of items from level 1-60 where only one to three people make. This includes top end items, though in some cases some top end items do have more competition then that, but for the most part (and I am guilty of this on some items) one person controls the pricing of any given item. With how this game gives you exp though leves and such, why is it so easy for 1 person to have all the specialists to control whatever they chose to control, giving them even more power?

Having a poor economic system has always been an issue with me since 2.0 and I am confused why this hasn't been addressed at all. It is just too easy for one person to control things in the current state.

Now because the people that want to collect gil have so little competition because of this, and with the lack of gil sinks, they move on with housing exploitation. (there is simply not enough things to do with your gil) SE clearly disagrees with such acts but people do that on the market boards too and on some servers control the market completely. Why is one case ok and not the other?

~~~Momo

[seida]

I don't really understand what the problem is.... if it's so "easy" to be a crafter and control the market... why not just do it yourself? Leveling crafters, gearing up etc takes a lot of time and effort - certainly more than I'm willing to put in - so why shouldn't crafters be free to charge what they like? Maybe it depends on your server, but the economics seem fine to me. The 250 stuff was expensive right after the patch, but it's already gone down by so much because more people are making it.

If, as you seem to be implying, only one person it making it... then yeah, they can charge whatever they like.

[aesteval]

but again there is little real reason to keep on accumulating gil past a certain point.

"Because they can" is a possible reason.

[Snow_Princess]

I don't really understand what the problem is.... if it's so "easy" to be a crafter and control the market... why not just do it yourself? Leveling crafters, gearing up etc takes a lot of time and effort - certainly more than I'm willing to put in - so why shouldn't crafters be free to charge what they like? Maybe it depends on your server, but the economics seem fine to me. The 250 stuff was expensive right after the patch, but it's already gone down by so much because more people are making it.

If, as you seem to be implying, only one person it making it... then yeah, they can charge whatever they like.

Because my goal is not to be a hypocrite. Just because I can do something, does not mean it is right to do. Plus as said, I did admit doing it in minor amounts, controlling something with lower level things. I just chose not to put the time and energy to keep doing it.

Honestly what takes more time and effort is actually making the 250 things, as for leveling the crafting classes themselves? No it isn't and the too fast leveling is an issue when someone chooses to exploit this. Another reason I do not do it, is stated by others. At some point gil is completely worthless so why spend all your time putting energy in abusing a system if there is no real reward other then showing multiple retainers with 999 999 999 gil?

Also I value my time, most seem to disregard this when they spam undercut the auction house. In wow at least you have to pay an upfront fee that seems to curve such actions. Again why should I full time camp the auction house and control the market when in the end of the day, gil is so useless?

Hey I am just here trying to get across the current economy is easily exploitable and confused why SE takes a stance of housing exploitation is bad, while not addressing this at all? my only guess is they do not know how easy it is to exploit and I am here trying to inform of such a thing.

~~~Momo