Let's discuss Red Mage

[AlexionSkylark]

WHM and SCH already are somewhat hybrid DPS/Heal. What we have today is not far from having an ACTUAL hybrid.

So... a melee DPS/healer with cleric stance (since it'll be a role-tied skill according to other points discussed). Like AST, it'll probably be a complementary healer, with buffs (enchant weapon?) and some original mechanics, and a nice arsenal of offensive skills.

[Radacci]

that'll definitely work. it's not going to compete with White Mage or Black Mage at what those 2 jobs are good at.

i would probably hate a RDM DPS or RDM Healer but w/e i don't have to play it, i just need to see that Hat in the game.

then it sounds like they aren't going to do that....

WHM and SCH already are somewhat hybrid DPS/Heal. What we have today is not far from having an ACTUAL hybrid.

So... a melee DPS/healer with cleric stance (since it'll be a role-tied skill according to other points discussed). Like AST, it'll probably be a complementary healer, with buffs (enchant weapon?) and some original mechanics, and a nice arsenal of offensive skills.

no they aren't, in that case mnk is a hybrid tank.
they just have some basic DPS, so they won't be useless, solo.
would you use a sch as a DPS instead of a DPS? would you use a sub-healer-rdm, instead of a real healer?
you can't have a real hybrid job, in this game, unless they are planning to change that for 4.0

I'd go with melee caster. using blm for attacks, and whm for buffs and some self heal, maybe party buffs like battle litany, or mantra, etc.
but a dps with party heals, is to OP. and if it's like BLM using Physick as cross-class, then it's useless anyway. At best you'll get something like second wind.
it's only going to get something like equilibrium, if it's a tank role (and RDM is going to just fill 1 role, so take your pick

[AlexionSkylark]

no they aren't, in that case mnk is a hybrid tank.
they just have some basic DPS, so they won't be useless, solo.
would you use a sch as a DPS instead of a DPS? would you use a sub-healer-rdm, instead of a real healer?

Erm... WHM and SCH are a capable healer with sub-DPS capacity (Id say they ammount to something between 1/2 and 2/3 of a DPS). That's what I mean.
And yes, lots of people would take a sub-healer RDM if the other healer is strong and well equipped, if said sub-healer would be able to pump up significant DPS.

Redmage could work as a tank pretty easily. Different elemental stances than have various effects. For example fire stance you get Enfire and Fire Spikes. Enfire adds fire dmg and increase threat generation while Fire Spikes does a decent amount of damage to those that hit the mage. Water stance's Enwater could be for replenishing mp/tp while the spikes reflect less dmg but increase parry. Wind stance could be the dps stance with the En increasing attack speed and reduce threat while the spikes increase evade. Then you have other attacks that change based on what elemental stance you are in. Like Elemental Assault, if you are in fire stance you do a cone attack for decent threat but in earth stance you do maybe a stunning aoe centered on yourself.

Add in some self-healing capabilities (I'd say wind stance could be the mp regen stance (RDMs wouldn't use TP imho) and water could be healing stance - fire already covers DPS neatly for soloing) and you got yourself a very original, and functional tank, too, who's very much in line with the RDM main concept of it primarily being a WHM/BLM hybrid.

[TheCurls]

I've said it a few times but I'll add it here for posterity. What I'd like to see from Red Mage is pretty specific:

A stance-dancing dps with-
Melee physical damage Stance. All skills obviously work within 5y of the enemy. They consume TP and restore MP.

Ranged caster damage Stance. All skills work only when 10y or further from the enemy. They consume MP and restore TP.

There should be a Shoulder Tackle-esque skill to gapclose into Melee Stance and a Repelling Shot-esque skill to put distance between you and the enemy to go into Caster Stance.

[AlexionSkylark]

I've said it a few times but I'll add it here for posterity. What I'd like to see from Red Mage is pretty specific:

A stance-dancing dps with-
Melee physical damage Stance. All skills obviously work within 5y of the enemy. They consume TP and restore MP.

Ranged caster damage Stance. All skills work only when 10y or further from the enemy. They consume MP and restore TP.

There should be a Shoulder Tackle-esque skill to gapclose into Melee Stance and a Repelling Shot-esque skill to put distance between you and the enemy to go into Caster Stance.

That would also be AWESOME. However, where's the WHM part of it? Before everything, a RDM is a WHM/BLM hybrid. how would you fit this concept there?

[TheCurls]

That would also be AWESOME. However, where's the WHM part of it? Before everything, a RDM is a WHM/BLM hybrid. how would you fit this concept there?

It would either take some artistic liberty with the traditional role of the job, or it could add the Enfire etc. skills as white magic.

[AlexionSkylark]

It would either take some artistic liberty with the traditional role of the job, or it could add the Enfire etc. skills as white magic.

take OUT the healing part of the RDM? that's ANATHEMA to Final Fantasy, you heretic (/sarcasm)

[Tanat]

I've just been so far underwhelmed by the lack of a sword dps in this game. I know some people will say it's too cliche or w/e, but personally I've always felt most comfortable with sword DPS classes.

The fact that Red Mage will/might scratch that itch is enough for me to be hyped for the class. Also whenever a game allows it, I tend to lean towards spell sword or battle mage type classes anyway, which is essentially what a RDM is.

[Tanat]

However, I do doubt that it'll be a jack-of-all-trades type of class, as I don't think that type of class would ever work in a game that's so focused on the holy-trinity job system. It's just counter intuitive to the entire system.

I can see the RDM working as a sort of over-all support (similar to the AST with their card buffs), while still holding its own as a DPS. They could make it so that it has multiple skills (or combos, i.e. storm's eye/path) that each apply a specific debuff (slashing/blunt/piercing/magic/etc.) or healing enhanced buffs so that it works well with whatever party composition you might have, effectively filling the role of any job that the party demands.

[Tanat]

They could even implement it in such a way that forcing the RDM to apply all of its debuffs/buffs would severely cripple its own DPS, so as much as possible you wouldn't make the RDM do all the work. They could even go so far as to give it skills that allow people to tackle content with unorthodox party make ups, such as single tank/single heal parties; for example skills that reset the CDs of specific party members, like resetting tank CDs so that the tank can live without a tank swap, or resetting healer CDs so they can gain MP faster/use swiftcast twice in succession, etc etc.