BRD V.S MCH in dps buff

[Yeol]

BRD
Foe Requiem - Affects Casters
Battle Voice - Doubles the effect of songs for 30s

BRD can burn their MP playing Foe Requiem for casters which reduces all enemy magic resistance by 10%. If played with Battle Voice that percentage becomes 20% for 30s.

Recast time for Battle Voice: 180s
Foe Requiem can be played many times as long as the BRD has some MP.

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MCH
Hypercharge + Rook Autoturret - Affects Melee
Hypercharge + Bishop Autoturret - Affects Casters

MCH do not use MP to give dps buff. Hypercharge Increases target's physical or magical damage taken for target by 10% for 20s

Recast time for Hypercharge: 120s
Hypercharge can only be used every 120s


Which Job is better?
Are they balanced evenly?

[Krindor]

Dual melee MCH Rook > BRD Foe
Dual casters BRD Foe > MCH

[AboHitham]

Also MCH buff tanks which they do more DPS than healers.

[Exiled_Tonberry]

They're balanced yes, but they serve different compositions.

Bard serves a composition of mages and strong dps healers better, and since there's normally only about two mages that can constantly dps(BLM/SMN and a SCH), their longer access to foe req as well as an extra 10% of magic damage is warranted to make up for the lack of magical attackers in party.

MCH serves a physical DD composition. There's much more physical attackers in a raid generally. 2 melee, the MCH themselves, and two tanks. Therefore while Hypercharge is much less damage than Foe Requiem battle voiced, there's a lot more attackers taking advantage of it.

I do say MCH does have a slight edge, simply because there's always going to be more physical than magic damage dealers, unless magic melee (red mage) becomes a thing.

[Yeol]

They're balanced yes, but they serve different...

So, you are saying

2 Melees + 1 Caster + MCH is slightly better than 2 Casters + 1 Melee + BRD

Despite the fact that caster usually top dps (holding 2k most of the time)

2 Casters dps combined > 2 Melee dps combined
But if we include healers and tanks dps
2 casters + 1 healer + BRD < 2 Melee + 2 tanks + MCH

[Nixous]

It really depends on the fight and your comp but remember this as well that MCHs do benefit from Hypercharge (rook) while BRD does not benefit from Foes.

While you are not wrong about casters holding 2k, I also see monks and some dragoons doing the same and MCH benefits from piercing debuff of a dragoon on top of their hypercharge, where none of the casters are able to help out a BRD (this could be considered extreme where there is 3 casters in a raid). In conclusion really what's going to come down to it is your team comp, if you have more melee you'll probably bring a MCH, while more casters a MCH or Preferably a BRD.

We could go a bit further with mana usage like you mentioned (foes uses up mana so if for whatever reason you need to do mp or tp song right after you'll have less to work with depending on situations) but realistically that's not going to be an issue from what I've seen.

[frostfirefawcett]

So many wrong information here it's baffling. It depends on the fight, how many Foes + BV you can get vs how many HCs you can get, how much DPS your healers are dishing out and how good your caster is.

In competent teams, even with 1 caster, Bard is generally gonna be higher rDPS with the exception of very few fights(A6S is a good example which was just heavil tuned for MCH because their CDs lined up perfectly for the fight). There's no such thing as "main healer " and "DPS healer" to the guy that was saying that SCH will be the only healer DPSing. Combined healer DPS is the way to go in any top tier statics. Couple that with the insane ST buff Bard got in 3.3 and yeah, you will find very few fights where MCH will be contributing more even with a single caster, as long as that caster and both healers are competent.

Here's an old article on Foes vs HC that my old BRD/MCH found that might help shed more light on this subject.


https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...n_33_jp_table/

[Krindor]

snip

After reading this I created a simulator instead of my previous quick spreadsheet calculations. On average over 1000 seconds foe is 2.236 times stronger than HC. For mch to be better than brd, physical + mch > 2.236 * magical + brd.
Legend cause I forgot to add it in the picture:
Blue = Foe Uptime
Red = Foe Average
Yellow = HC Average

[Nixous]

After reading this I created a simulator instead of my previous quick spreadsheet calculations. On average over 1000 seconds foe is 2.236 times stronger than HC. For mch to be better than brd, physical + mch > 2.236 * magical + brd.

The only issue i see here is that you have them both falling off at the same time where the physical debuff is a 10 second debuff from the last shot of the turret under the effects of hypercharge. It won't change the math a whole lot but it does mean you're missing out on a good couple seconds of the physical down debuff that will still be on the target.

[Krindor]

The only issue i see here is that you have them both falling off at the same time where the physical debuff is a 10 second debuff from the last shot of the turret under the effects of hypercharge. It won't change the math a whole lot but it does mean you're missing out on a good couple seconds of the physical down debuff that will still be on the target.

Hypercharge is 20 seconds so a total of 30 seconds while bv is 30 seconds, so both of them falling off at the same time makes sense.