Summoner Pets in 4.0

[MagiusNecros]

You people really need to let this go.

I agree. It's time to let Summoner go, rename it to Super Arcanist and bask in with our new Carbuncle Glamour overlords. Fuck FF tradition.

[Konungarike]

I main summoner. I love the class and the way it plays. I think that DWT was a good way forward that fits with the established rules of FFXIV's world. Anything else would break the lore, and subsequently, my immersion in it.

Bigger, more detailed egis? Why put graphical strain on something like that when it could be used on environmental design or boss fights? There is only so much an average player machine can handle. A good-looking game means nothing if it doesn't function properly, as 1.0 surely should've proven.

Re-work the entire job? Uhm, no. They would have to rewrite the entire summoner job storyline, and patch the old one out of the game. The time and resources spent on rebalancing "SMN 4.0" could be spent on a NEW job. We get little new content as it is, I don't want them bogged down in remastering a job that functions well and fine.

I'm disappointed that egi glamours are late, but at least I know they're working on it. I see it as a nice treat, not something that would make or break the job for me.

[FeliAiko]

I agree. It's time to let Summoner go, rename it to Super Arcanist and bask in with our new Carbuncle Glamour overlords. Fuck FF tradition.

SMN traditionally has been a flashy gimmick that got old real fast once you got better, more efficient spells later in games. No wonder the attempt to translate it into XI reportedly bombed for as long as it it did. I'd rather having a mechanically functioning Job over a 'traditional' one that ends up being an unwanted, gimmicky mess.

[MagiusNecros]

SMN traditionally has been a flashy gimmick that got old real fast once you got better, more efficient spells later in games. No wonder the attempt to translate it into XI reportedly bombed for as long as it it did. I'd rather having a mechanically functioning Job over a 'traditional' one that ends up being an unwanted, gimmicky mess.

At least they got the whole "it gets old fast" motif down. Props to them on that.

[ADVSS]

Im not sure how traditional youre looking for in smn, but theyve gotten pretty good at aoe nuking with trance, and dissipation is a thing for scholars, i could see them doing this, eating your egi, going the trance and doing enkindle 2 instead of deathflare, which does a big burst based on the egi you dissipated. Not really that hard to imagine, but youd still only get 3 egis. Which to me is why i could care less about egi glamours, its still gonna be the same 3, forever....

Im not sure why you would want to have all that control over the pets and think dodging titan extreme would be a thing, its a cool newer thing that happened from final fantasies x and up, but this kind of system in game would make it very difficult to be wanted into any content that mattered, hell the egis themselves already get killed too fast in certain fights, having them be most of your dps would just make smn a laughing stock and unwanted.

HOWEVER

palace of the dead has shown that you can sort of merge that concept if you "become" the summon itself for a short time etc. So if it did work like a polumorph in that manner, then i can say its possible for them to do. I wouldnt expect too much though, maybe 4-6 different forms, and 1 spammable attack, like it works in potd. If you want to do that, then yeah it seems easilly plausible.

[Duelle]

I main summoner. I love the class and the way it plays. I think that DWT was a good way forward that fits with the established rules of FFXIV's world. Anything else would break the lore, and subsequently, my immersion in it.

The problem is that Dreadwyrm Trance is literally a random direction for a job know for summoning things. Sure, it's basically Metamorphosis from WoW Warlocks (back when they had it, since they don't have that ability anymore), but the job lacks a sort of foundation for DWT to not feel like a random added thing. Demo Locks at least had a foundation based on pets (including mechanical bonuses from certain pets, raid buffs from others and abilities that required specific pets to be active), while SMN was only part of the way there before the 52-60 abilities were added.

I'll post something I put in a thread about more pet classes, simply because I believe you can adjust aspects of the job and may need to redesign the job's growth from 52-60, but a full redesign is not really needed for SMN.

Arcanist

Summary of changes

- Ruin gains extra potency on targets with Bio and Bio II on them. Total potency of a target with Bio and Bio II on them is 100.
- Bio stretched to 30s duration but nerfed from 40 potency to 25 potency per tick.
- Miasma changed from a single-target DoT to an AoE DoT. Is no longer affected by Bane. No longer applies Malady or Weight. MP cost increased to double of current amount to compensate.
- Sustain buffed to a total of 30% of pet HP recovered, but spread over 15s instead of 10s.
- Bane now spreads only Bio and Bio II. No longer has a chance to refresh durations.
- Eye for an Eye's cooldown reduced to 120s baseline.
- Rouse removed. Replaced by Emancipation.
- Miasma II removed. Replaced by Affliction.
- Shadow Flare now requires Aetherflow and is instant cast.
- Enhanced Pet Actions changed to pets gaining additional damage per DoT on the target.
- Pet damage resistance to AoE attacks increased.
- Reduced chances of being interrupted by damage when summoning.

Abilities

01 Ruin - Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 80.
02 Bio - Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 25 for 30s (combined total potency of 250). Adds 10 potency to Ruin if used on target affected.
04 Summon - Summons a caster-type pet to fight by your side.
04 Physick - Restores target's HP. Cure potency: 400
06 Aetherflow - Restores 20% of maximum MP. Additional Effect: Aetherflow. Cooldown: 60s.
08 Energy Drain - Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 150. Additional Effect: If under the effect of Aetherflow, absorbs 50% of damage dealt as HP and restores MP.
10 Miasma - Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 20 to target and nearby enemies. Additional Effect: Unaspected damage with potency of 25 for 24 seconds (Combined total potency of 220).
12 Virus - Reduces target's STR and DEX by 15% for 10s. Cooldown: 90s.
15 Summon II - Summons a tank-type pet to fight at your side.
18 Sustain - Continuously restores 6% of summon's HP over a period of 15s (total 30% of summon's HP).
22 Resurrection - Resurrects target to a weakened state.
26 Bio II - Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 35 over 30s (combined total potency of 350). Adds 10 potency to Ruin if used on target affected.
30 Bane - Spreads a target's Bio or Bio II to all nearby enemies with remaining debuff duration.
34 Eye for an Eye - Erects a magicked barrier around a single party member or pet for 30s. Barrier Effect: 20% chance that when barrier is struck, the striker will deal 10% less damage for 20s. Cooldown: 120s.
38 Ruin II - Deals unaspected damage with a potency of 80. Additional Effect: Blind for 10s.
42 Emancipation - Resets the cooldown on pet abilities and removes all status ailments on pet. Cooldown: 240s.
46 Affliction - Reduces target's HP recovered by healing magic by 20% for 24s. Additional Effect: 40% Heavy for 24s. Cooldown: 30s.
50 Shadow Flare - Envelops a designated area in a veil of magicked shadows, dealing damage with a potency of 25 to any who enter for 30s (combined total potency of 250 per target). Additional Effect: 5% of Slow. Can only be used while under the effect of Aetherflow.

Traits

08 Aetherdam - Allows the stacking of one Aetherflow.
14 Enhanced Intelligence
16 Enhanced Intelligence II
20 Maim and Mend - Increases base action damage and HP restoration by 10%.
20 Aetherdam II - Allows the stacking of up to two Aetherflows.
24 Enhanced Pet Actions - Pet abilities deal an additional 5% damage per damage over time effect on target.
28 Supervirus - Adds 15% Intelligence and mind enfeeblement to Virus for 12 seconds.
32 Enhanced Intelligence III
36 Energy Siphon - Doubles the amount of MP restored by Energy Drain.
40 Maim and Mend II - Increases base action damage and HP restoration by 30%.
40 Aetherdam III - Allows the stacking of up to three Aetherflows.
44 Enhanced Pet Resistance - Reduces pet's damage taken from indirect/area-of-effect sources by 20%.
48 Fortified Summoning - Reduces your chances of being interrupted from taking damage while casting summoning spells by 60%.

Notes

- The point of these tweaks is to remove some of the pet abilities from ACN. This leaves ACN to be focused on DoTs. and some debuffs.
- To clarify, Enhanced Pet Actions now increases the damage your pet deals on a target that has DoT effects on them. Ideally it is balanced around targets under the effect of Bio, Bio II and Miasma. Shadow Flare may also count as a DoT effect, but I'm not sure about it at the moment.
- Pet Resistance is there because I've seen pets get 3-shot by AoEs in dungeons. Not sure if this is a problem in savage content, but I thought it might be nice.
- Emancipation I feel would be a helpful cooldown to have in certain situations, and I see both SCH and SMN benefiting from it.

Summoner

Summary of Changes

- Tri-bind removed. Replaced by Egi Siphon.
- Spur and Rouse have been sort of combined.
- Dreadwyrm Trance and its associated abilities have been removed.
- Egi ability spread has been reduced from 5 abilities to 4. As such, Contagion, Landslide, and Radiant Shield are gone.
- Egi ultimate abilities (Inferno, Aerial Blast, etc) no longer have a cooldown but can only activate via Enkindle.

Job Abilities

30 Summon III - Summons an attacker-type pet to fight at your side.
35 Fester - Cause wounds inflicted by your damage over time effects to fester, dealing damage with a potency of 150. Refreshes the duration of Bio, Bio II or Miasma on target. Can only affect spells cast by you. Can only be used while under the effect of Aetherflow.
40 Rouse - Increases a pet's physical and magical attack power by 50% for 20s. While roused, pet will be immune to stun, sleep, bind, heavy, paralysis, and disease for 20s. Cooldown: 60s.
45 Egi Siphon - Absorb 30% of your current Egi's HP, generating one stack of Aetherflow. Cooldown: 45s.
50 Enkindle - Commands pet to use its signature attack. Cooldown: 180s.
52 Summon IV - Summons a crowd control-type pet to fight at your side. (this would be Shiva-Egi)
54 Elemental Wheel - Summons egi corresponding to your current egi's elemental wheel for 20s. Cooldown: 60s. (see notes)
56 Chandrahas - Summons Ravana-Egi to temporarily fight by your side for 15s. Upon expiring, performs Chandrahas, dealing damage with a potency of 200 to target and nearby enemies. Additional effect: Increases target's damage taken by 5% for 10s. Cooldown: 90s. Can only be used while under the effect of Aetherflow.
58 Summon V - Summons an anti-caster pet to fight by your side. (this would be Leviathan-Egi)
60 Trine - Delivers an attack with a potency of 200. Gains 100 potency per additional active egi. Can only be used while under the effect of Elemental Wheel and Aetherflow. Requires two stacks of Aetherflow. Consumes Elemental Wheel upon use.

Garuda-Egi

Wind Blade - Deals wind damage with a potency of 110.
Shockwave - Deals wind damage with a potency of 90. Additional Effect: 15-yalm knockback. Cooldown: 90s.
Aerial Slash - Deals wind damage with a potency of 100 to target and all enemies nearby it. Cooldown: 30s.
Aerial Blast - Deals wind damage with a potency of 250 to target and all enemies nearby it.

Titan-Egi

Rock Buster - Delivers an attack with a potency of 85. Additional Effect: Increased enmity.
Mountain Buster - Delivers an attack with a potency of 70 to all nearby enemies. Additional Effect: Increased enmity. Cooldown: 15s.
Earthen Ward - Decreases damage suffered by pet by 20% for 20s. Cooldown: 120s.
Earthen Fury - Deals earth damage with a potency of 200 to all nearby targets. Additional Effect: Razed earth for 15s.

Ifrit-Egi

Burning Strike - Delivers an attack with a potency of 120.
Flaming Crush - Delivers an attack with a potency of 110 to all nearby enemies. Cooldown: 30s.
Crimson Cyclone - Delivers an attack with a potency of 110. Additional Effect: Stun for 2s. Cooldown: 40s.
Inferno - Deals fire damage with a potency of 200 to all enemies in a cone before it. Additional Effect: Fire damage over time with potency of 20 for 15s (combined total potency of 300 per target).

Shiva-Egi

Ice Brand - Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Absolute Zero - Delivers an attack with a potency of 80 to nearby enemies. Additional effect: 50% Heavy for 10s. Cooldown: 90s.
Dream of Ice - Prevents target from acting for up to 15s. Effect ends upon taking damage, using another action or moving. Cooldown: 30s.
Diamond Dust - Deals ice damage with a potency of 250 to all nearby enemies.

Leviathan-Egi

Aquabreath - Deals water damage with a potency of 90.
Spinning Dive - Delivers an attack with a potency of 70. Additional effect: Silence for 3s. Cooldown: 30s.
Gyre Spume - Links target with a Gyre Spume, reducing target's magic potency by 20% for 10s. Effect ends if the Gyre Spume is destroyed. Cooldown: 120s.
Tsunami - Deals water damage with a potency of 200 to target and nearby enemies.

About Elemental Wheel

This ability uses the 1.0 elemental wheel that separated elements into two sets. Fire => Ice => Wind being one, and Earth => Lightning => Water being the other.

The ability basically summons the egi that compliment the wheel. So if you have Ifrit-Egi active, clicking on the ability will temporarily summon Shiva-Egi and Garuda-Egi to do their thing. As of right now, all they can do is auto-attack and contribute to Trine.

Because the Earth/Lightning/Water part of the wheel is not complete (I'd plan Ramuh-Egi to be the first thing you get upon hitting lv62), Using this while Titan-Egi is active would just summon Leviathan-Egi (and vice versa). Once you get Ramuh-Egi at lv62 you'd be able to summon the complete second wheel.

Notes

- This concept focuses a bit more on the pets, with abilities and utility coming via the pets themselves.
- I wasn't kidding when I said Levi-Egi could be a good anti-caster pet. It'd probably become one of those pets good for PvP or for fights where you need interrupts.
- Egi Siphon came about because I feel SMN should have an additional way to generate Aetherflow stacks. I originally wanted it to sacrifice the egi but that didn't pan out once I wrote it down.
- Trine was inspired by this. And it would follow a similar principle, since the three active egi would perform a sort of combination attack, dealing the damage. Since the ability consumes Elemental Wheel, the other two Egi vanish after you use Trine.
- Because the second elemental wheel is incomplete, using Trine while Titan-Egi or Leviathan-Egi are active delivers an attack with a potency of 300. Once you get Ramuh-egi it'll go back up to 400.
- I'm sure some would hate to see Egi go down to 4 abilities from 5, but egi having 5 abilities is part of what can create too much overlap between them. For reference, the template class used (WoW Warlocks) have pets with 3 abilities each without counting the passive stuff.
- Pet scaling may need to be bumped up a bit more. I haven't done the math on how big a nerf this is for SMN.
- As far as room for potential growth, the 60-70 questline could involve not only Ramuh-Egi, but also Bismarck-Egi as a temporary summon along with the ability to weaken yourself (or maybe just consume 3 aetherflow stacks) to empower your egi's. Think of it along the lines of how Pokemon evolve.

[Darkstride]

I agree. It's time to let Summoner go, rename it to Super Arcanist and bask in with our new Carbuncle Glamour overlords. Fuck FF tradition.

"Final Fantasy tradition" is a poor argument since summoning has been handled in various ways throughout the series. Some titles don't even have a Summoner job and any capable character can summon as a basic spell (VI, VII, VIII). A couple of titles have summons as a persistent pet with commands (X, XI), while others have them temporarily summoned (XII, XIII) as a buddy before they launch their signature attack. The titles that do have actual Summoners (IX, Tactics) just use them as a flashy spell animation with no actual control or command over the summon as a "pet".

[MagiusNecros]

Most of the various ways a summon is handled is you summon a monster for one big attack and it goes away. Ergo not various. In X once it uses up it's big attack it goes away as well. XI is the only one where they stayed out. If anything your argument is poor and has no basis anywhere.

Summoning generally has a cast time. This cast time is meant to adhere to you saying the summons name in the language of magic to call upon their spirit and have them do an attack for you.

XIV is handled the way it is because the whole story is about killing summon beasts and that summoning is bad. Which if summoning is bad and a big no no why even introduce a summoning class if it inadvertently conflicts with the lore setting?

[Darkstride]

Most of the various ways a summon is handled is you summon a monster for one big attack and it goes away.

I'm saying the job "Summoner" has been handled in various ways and there isn't a concrete definition of what it is or should be. Not every game has a Summoner and sometimes the summons are simply a spell that anyone can learn or use.

This thread was started with the suggestion that Summoners should be more focused on pet commands rather than the Summoner's personal abilities. I've seen the argument multiple times that XIV's Summoner should be more pet-focused in order to be more like a traditional Final FANTASY summoner. There's nothing "traditional" about it.

If it were implemented in a way to reflect traditional Summoners, then there would be no pets and the job would just have the ability to summon various primal likenesses for individual attacks.

[MagiusNecros]

I'm saying the job "Summoner" has been handled in various ways and there isn't a concrete definition of what it is or should be. Not every game has a Summoner and sometimes the summons are simply a spell that anyone can learn or use.

This thread was started with the suggestion that Summoners should be more focused on pet commands rather than the Summoner's personal abilities. I've seen the argument multiple times that XIV's Summoner should be more pet-focused in order to be more like a traditional Final FANTASY summoner. There's nothing "traditional" about it.

If it were implemented in a way to reflect traditional Summoners, then there would be no pets and the job would just have the ability to summon various primal likenesses for individual attacks.

Summoner class is based on the monsters. Not the caster. Subset class the Evoker is generally more inclined to channel Summon monsters powers into their being via trances.

End of discussion.

Players wanted a Pet class. They failed to deliver. The rest is history.