The Griffin

[Ametrine]

And what about Midgardsormr? He's never made any mention on the eyes, had pretty insane levels of power as what amounts to a ghost, and it rapidly regrowing himself via a self induced rebirth.

Then it get's further complicated with aevis basically being people made dragon and dragons having wildly different physical features apparently depending on power verses any genetic variables.

Aliens, man.

[myahele]

It does make me wonder if "Heart of Sabik" truly is the heart of a person/entity named Sabik and who's heart is now being used by the Asciens. Much like how the Eyes of Nidhogg are now tools for Elidibus' machinations.

[Anonymoose]

It does make me wonder if "Heart of Sabik" truly is the heart of a person/entity named Sabik

Could be! I've been too focused on the obvious to consider alternative hypotheses; Sabik (from an Arabic root meaning "former; previous") is at the "heart" of Ophiuchus, the thirteenth constellation, associated with Zodiark himself. I've been assuming that it was perhaps "Black Auracite" or some other manifestation of the franchise "holy stone" somehow strongly tied to Zodiark. But it could be otherwise.

I think the thing that keeps the blinders on me is that Ophiuchus is the Serpent Bearer, holding in his grasp the constellation of Serpens, which contains the star Unukalhai. The boy bearing the same name is all-but-confirmed to be controlled by Elidibus, who is Zodiark's emissary and brings it all full circle.

Though it still doesn't say Sabik is not a unique thing (aside from that it contains Zodiark's power).

[Rocl]

ARE WE STILL POSTING CRACKPOT GRIFFIN THEORIES AND TRYING TO MAKE IT NOT BE ILBERD?

If I were a betting man, I'd bet on Ilberd.
If I was a Garlean fan, I'd bet on Gaius.
If I was sympathetic to the plight of the Ala Mhigans, I'd bet on ... Warburton.

YEAH. YOU HEARD ME. MINFILIA'S DAD. (It should be noted this is her assumed biological father and not related to her adoptive mother F'hlaminn.)

Now you may not know me, but I loved Ul'dah's 1.0 scenario. It introduced us to a young Minfilia, going by her true name of Ascilia, and a complicated plot of double agents in the Garlean forces. Corguevais, seemingly sympathetic to the would-be Syndicate, but actually working for Garlemald to destabilize Ul'dah's government and Warburton, thought to be a Garlean spy but actually loyal to Ala Mhigo coming to Ul'dah to deliver the resistance the Empire's research on Primals. The twisted plots and machinations of a younger Lolorito seeking to secure his hold on both his fortune and power. Thancred barely out of his swaddling bluffing his way through the Platinum Mirage and wooing women and other malarkey.

Key points we know about the Griffin:
Doesn't want to work with Scions
Is working with Elidibus
Has a bone to pick
Wants to reclaim Ala Mhigo

Key points we know about Warburton:
Daughter, now 'deceased', founded the Scions
Probably had some vague knowledge of Ascians through his stolen Primal research
Is probably mad about a lot of stuff
Has worked to reclaim Ala Mhigo in the past

A big question has always been "Why is Ilberd stupid enough to work with the Ascians? Like, he should know better, serving under Alphinaud." and "How is Nero gonna join up with the Ala Mhigan Resistance or vice versa? That's dumb as hell."

These are good questions and ones I look forward to having answered in the coming year(s), but hear me out:

Warburton (whose body was never displayed after Niellefresne opens his coffins to an "No... This cannot be...") would probably want little to do with the Scions and his daughter, especially if his status as a double agent was known within Garlemald. That'd be just putting them in even more danger, eh? And if his status as a double agent was an unknown it'd be mighty suspicious if he had been hanging around them!

Furthermore, since the Ascians came to him, he likely knows of Minfilia's fate as Emissary, or before that Word of the Mother. That is, that Hydaelyn had taken Minfilia's mortal form from her as a means of a little energy snack. I can't imagine this would invoke the most endearing of thoughts in her father all things considered.

He's Ala Mhigan and has always worked with the resistance. If his identity was known throughout the land, you can bet a Garlean Legion would descend upon him for his treasonous crimes against the Empire. Given his entrenchment in the Garlean Intelligence field, like as not him and Nero have some tenuous connection; "frumentarium sees all" and what-not. Perhaps Warburton is playing quadruple agent against everyone to visit grievous devastation upon the Empire in repayment for the King of Ruin and subsequent Imperial invasion.

tl;dr- Warburton's mad Hydaelyn ate his daughter, wants his homeland back, and will do whatever it takes to at least see that, given he gave up his relationship with his daughter in attempt to protect her until they could return to Ala Mhigo.

Like most of my posts, I rambled on a bit and got stuck rewatching cutscenes rather than finishing my thoughts. This is incredibly darksteel tinfoil hattery or whathaveyou but c'mon we could use an unexpected twist, eh? Everything points to A, so it's gotta be J.

Further fun fact: there was a horn similar to the one Travanchet bequeathed Mide in the Ul'dah 1.0 scenario as well, though I think Corguevais last had it and he's MIA

[Cilia]

No? I think it's been fairly proven that every slagging piece of evidence besides rumors spread by the inhabitants of Little Ala Mhigo point to Ilberd... and rumors don't really count as evidence...

[Ramesses]

Ahhhhh crap... as always, I'm late again to the discussion party. I ran into Moose online on the server last night and promised I would chime in... but dang, you guys are incredible at deciphering this Griffin identity issue. Eight solid pages already... bloody well done.

My two cents:

The obvious:
I initially went with the notion that it could very well be Gaius until halfway through the cutscene I realized that the body style didn't match (we all know our Griffin chap is a Highlander while Gaius is a Hume).

The keener point of inspection:
It wasn't until I rewatched the cutscenes (so that I could scrutinize the dialogues for clues) that I realized that our Griffin was most likely Ilberd. But while chatting with Moose last night (before our respective Duty Finders popped) a keener point of possibility arose while we discussed... what if Ilberd was indeed the Griffin BUT was working for Gaius? Its fortuitous that Moose had already loosely suggested this on page 5 and I was glad to find that I was not the only one thinking along those lines.

Think about it... as much as Ilberd hated the empire, the Scions and Raubhan, he needed a LOT of funds, resources and arcane-like connections to get his "program" for revenge going. This was a guy on the run. How he linked up with Elidibus, secured followers and established a base of operations within a very swift amount of time points to the fact that he likely had a mentor that "showed him the ropes". And Gaius always had a prime talent for making skilled revenge-seekers gravitate to his side so that he could mold them into his fashion.

Or am I just wanting Gaius back so much... (I still stubbornly refuse to accept he's dead)... that I'm just grasping at obscene notions?

<Shrugs>

[Fiaryn]

Based on the character data for the NPCs, the False Griffin is

No one we've ever actually met. If his data isn't just random, his story is total lie as he looks nothing like the man we helped

While the real one is

Ilberd. The NPC under the mask looks identical to him

Well while I was inclined to believe Not Ilberd, this is pretty damning.

[Cilia]

I'm honestly not seeing a contradiction with the timeline that would set Ilberd up to be the Griffin. His funding takes a little more thought, but there's no contradiction with the time frame.

We first see the Griffin in the stinger of 3.1. Going by a very, very loose timeline, that's anywhere between 2 and 3 months after the ending of 2.55 and 3.1 at least. It was approximately 2 weeks to 2 months between the ending of 2.55 and 3.0, and 3.0 had to take place over the course of at least one tumultuous month. We dealt with Ilberd early on in the 3.0 story, meaning he was not in Lolorito's employ for 80% of it (and may well have not been in his employ for the entirety of 3.0, depending on when Lolorito kicked him to the curb). Add another month or so for the events of 3.2 and 3.3, and another month or two for the timeskip between Nidhogg's defeat and when we get to play again after the Ishgardian government reformation. So there's approximately 3.5 to 5 months between "Before the Fall" and "Soul Surrender;" plenty of time for Ilberd to get operations up and running as the Griffin.

The rest of the Masks don't look particularly well-equipped. The Griffin and his proxies do have some snazzy threads, but Ilberd was working for Lolorito - the wealthiest man in Eorzea - for some time. While certainly not loaded, he never seemed to be in want for coin (in fact Raubahn specifically called him out on betraying everyone for the Monetarists' coin), and with that getting some special clothes and rudimentary armaments for the Masks is far from implausible.

Both of the questions are pertinent if you're going to ask whether or not Gaius could be the Griffin. Time is not really a factor (2.0 end - 3.4 is a good length of time), but how the devil would a renegade Garlean legatus get the funds to supply the Masks in Eorzea of all places?

Gaius could be coaching Ilberd as the Griffin, but... I don't think that's plausible even. Aside from the whole "blown up in the Praetorium" thing, there would be too much of a clash in their personalities, and I can't think of a reason as to why Gaius would try to liberate Ala Mhigo. If I may be so blunt, the whole Gaius idea has felt like wishful thinking from the first...

[Hinoto-no-Ryuji]

[H]ow the devil would a renegade Garlean legatus get the funds to supply the Masks in Eorzea of all places?

Not that I disagree with you (I don't think it's especially likely to be Gaius), but Gaius has been shown to be a rather cunning fellow, and it's not like it would be hard for a guy who wore full body armour to go incognito without it - his face wouldn't exactly be well-known (and certainly less so than Ilberd's). All he'd have to do is hide his Third Eye, and his status as a Garlean legatus wouldn't be much of a factor at all.

[Legion88]

Did i missread something? I thought i read something that the Griffin is fighting the Garleans since they conquered Ala Mhigo...from even before 1.0...?
This would swipe Gaius from the list of candidates.
Ilberds last stand in the story is in the beginning of 3.0 around level 51 MSQ, i asume this is like 6-10 month in the past...he could be it, but then Ilberd wouldn't be his true name for reasons.