SPOILER WARNING - Sorry SE, you've lost me with the latest story

[Theodric]

Eh, personally I found it very refreshing that the Warriors of Darkness had contempt towards the Scions and Warrior of Light. I've grown increasingly tired of all the hero worship surrounding the main cast though - especially since they're rarely in any real danger and we've suffered countless 'fake outs' ever since the end of 2.0 where death and injury is concerned. Yes, we lost Haurchefant and Ysayle back in 3.0 but even then they were secondary characters and it's crystal clear that the main Scions and City State leaders have firm plot armour to shield them from genuine and long lasting physical and political consequences. I wonder how many more times we'll be teased with the likes of Aymeric maybe dying but never really being in danger?

It rubs me the wrong way because it means that any new characters who are introduced to keep things fresh - such as Moenbryda or the Warriors of Darkness - end up being the ones to be killed off. Usually very abruptly too. I'll be honest and say that a lot of the major characters in this game bore me though. I'm not very fond of the likes of Cid or Aymeric. They're far too self righteous and without any real, meaningful flaws. I prefer characters with more depth and complexity to them - the sort of characters who screw up from time to time or can actually be selfish.

That's why Ysayle and the Warriors of Darkness worked for me. They screwed up, they had flaws but they weren't completely rotten and believed that their causes were just. I do wish more characters with flaws stuck around though.

Overall though the storytelling is still a lot better than what other MMO's offer. Hopefully 4.0 isn't afraid to go above and beyond 2.0 and 3.0. The developers do appear to take constructive feedback on board after all.

[AlexionSkylark]

While I did expect the WoD arc to have stretched a bit more, I won't say SE lost me, or that I didn't like the story. It gave answers to lots of questions (was Urianger betraying us? What will become of Minfilia? Just who actually is the Warrior of Darkness?), and it provided us with some very thoughtful questioning, mainly: "So, are they a reflection of our own future? Is our world doomed to mimic their destiny if we keep threading this path we are in?"

Not to mention it really looked like a very subtle, but yet very important addition to the FFXIV universe. THERE ARE OTHER PLANETS IN THE GAME'S UNIVERSE, and even more, THE ASCIANS HAVE ACCESS TO THEM. This is HUGE. This opens up to LIMITLESS potential new storylines for future expansions, who can say that we won't travel to the WoD's world in the future, or even to the OTHER unmentioned worlds? Suddenly a whole universe opened up before us, and this is the best thing that could have happened.

[Knahli]

I think an important distinction can be made between working with Ascians in general and working with Elidibus. It's been made quite apparent that Elidibus is something of an enigma and has been shown before to have conflicting interests with his brethren. For all we know, Elidibus is the only one working towards a true balanced reunification of the reflections, as opposed to the Ascian's supposed general plan of "darkness for everyone."

That's adopting a very omniscient point of view from the narrative though. I cannot recall any single instance that has given anyone reason to believe that Elidibus is something deserving of any more trust than any other Ascian. They are deceptive by nature and the WoL/D should know that better than anyone else. I'm not suggesting it's bad that desperation saw them cave to such lows, but that they'd sooner trust an Ascian over another world's WoL who they should have almost everything in common with? They said it themselves that 'you' should know better than anyone what it would possibly feel like to have fate reward you so cruelly, yet instead of stating their intentions they just act like irrational, antagonistic ***holes. Not even so much as a "We're going to do this. We don't care if you dislike it. Either accept it and get out of our way, or we will make you".

[SessionZero]

-snip-

I mean, I don't know about you, but if I gave my very life to travel to another world in order to pull my own back from the brink of destruction, and some jerk and his jerky friends kept messing with my stuff and thwarting my world's salvation at every turn, I'd be fairly pissed off and antagonistic towards them as well.

Edited to add: We also have no idea what sorts of words or deeds were exchanged between Elidibus and the Warriors of Darkness. He could have revealed something huge to them that could make even us go "Oh, okay that makes sense, yeah let's do this." The only person with a foot in both camps and who seems to really know wtf is going on is Urianger, and he doesn't seem forthcoming with any really relevant info.

[whiteblade89]

Honestly, I feel like this was the first time that SE actually added the right sort of complexity to the main story. I love stories where characters are morally grey or where they face impossible decisions. The Witcher 3 for example, every choice you make is fairly grey. What you do pleases one party, but could potentially doom another. No one gets out unscathed. My biggest qualms with FFXIV main story is what someone mentioned above: there's no middle ground between good and bad. You're the Warrior of Light and the Scions, and you're always good, no matter what. 3.4 finally made me question whether I was doing the right thing or not. And it finally made the comparison between light and dark. Too much of either is disastrous, so there needs to be balance between the two. I hope SE does more of this in the future. I want to feel like im playing a complex character, rather than a silent shell who is just there to do everything for everyone.

[Alleo]

@Knahli: That is exactly my problem that I have with the WoD. All the time they are shown as villains. Yes their world is on brink of destruction and its horrible, but at the same time they should know how important the WoL is for balance. If the world loses its WoL its seems that it might end really bad and since this is the original world this would be bad for all the other worlds too.

@SessionZero: The problem is that they already tried to kill us the first time that we meet them. I could understand that they would have been angry/pissed at us if they just talked to us, tried to find a way and we would have been a complete jerk about it but we never got the chance to talk. The paladin tried to murder Y'shtola and the warrior tried to kill us while we were still under the effect of the echo. Than they shoot Alisea and without Thancred she would have been death and after that are taunting about it.

So all the time they were taunting guys that attacked us instantly and suddenly they looked down and are all teary eyed..Maybe if SE showed us some cutscenes with the WoD's alone and talking about it. Maybe showing their regret of having to fight us..anything like that would have helped to paint them better. But it was: Enemy -> villain -> misunderstood good guy..Just one more patch with fleshing them out. Maybe they could have used this patch to show them in a better light at the end and use the next one to make them more like rivals/friends to our WoL.

They dont have to worship us, but at least show a little respect..I mean we are one WoL having to shoulder not only the safety of our own world but the whole existence itself..

[MikaIto]

I felt the "twist" with the warriors of darkness was kinda cheap and unfair the grins that roe makes and pure joy they seem to have in besting us makes there development to actually being too good for there own good make no sense at all even subtle hints like making them look sad doing what they did would have been a 100x better then being lied too until the story demanded there plot change. Story has been great but this one kinda took a cheap shot and left a sour taste especially with the nidhog eyes thing as well virtually erasing a good chunk of what we did even if our character made the worst decision ever throwing them off a cliff.

[Teraluna]

I felt the "twist" with the warriors of darkness was kinda cheap and unfair the grins that roe makes and pure joy they seem to have in besting us makes there development to actually being too good for there own good make no sense at all even subtle hints like making them look sad doing what they did would have been a 100x better then being lied too until the story demanded there plot change. Story has been great but this one kinda took a cheap shot and left a sour taste especially with the nidhog eyes thing as well virtually erasing a good chunk of what we did even if our character made the worst decision ever throwing them off a cliff.

Yes, the WoD behaviour just didn't seem to accurately portray their back story. Protectors of the people on their world, now grinning when slaughtering innocents...

But the bigger contradiction and fudging for me was with the Hydaelyn bit. A benevolent protector (think ending scene of Ultimate Weapon), who by the way is going to wipe out all living things for eternity. But no! Somehow realizing that wiping all living things out for eternity isn't good for morale, this is changed in an instant to not wiping all living things out for eternity. Oh, and you can have this possessed ex-Scion leader who fell into my grasp to sort out my penchant for obliterating your world. There you go, aren't I good?

[Dualgunner]

Yes, the WoD behaviour just didn't seem to accurately portray their back story. Protectors of the people on their world, now grinning when slaughtering innocents...

But the bigger contradiction and fudging for me was with the Hydaelyn bit. A benevolent protector (think ending scene of Ultimate Weapon), who by the way is going to wipe out all living things for eternity. But no! Somehow realizing that wiping all living things out for eternity isn't good for morale, this is changed in an instant to not wiping all living things out for eternity. Oh, and you can have this possessed ex-Scion leader who fell into my grasp to sort out my penchant for obliterating your world. There you go, aren't I good?

So...the Old Testament Hydaelan finally ended and we're in the new testament?

I think the WoD were removed from the story too quickly. They were portrayed as psychotic villains, at least the Knight and Ranger were, and given a sympathetic background. Then they were whisked away from the plot. They are supposed to be our equal/opposite, the yang to our yin or whatever, they're not supposed to be throwaway like that. Even if they didn't fit the theme of a garlean expansion...who knows maybe they would have?

Like Alleo said, they could have developed into rivals/friends for us. Someone to watch our back in canon against the shit we deal with, someone to go "Ok seriously what does Ul'Dahn politics have to do with killing Ifrit who's burning down Little Ala Mhigo, come on you're better than this." or "I'm watching you. I have your back but the moment you take a wrong step I'm taking over, and we're saving the world my way."

Just...so much opportunity lost. So much possible development between us and people who not only understand what its like to have echo *but also understand what its like to have a world's fate on your shoulders*. Even as rivals or enemies, it would be a nice consistent foe to have.

[Zohar_Lahar]

The story with the WoDs was rushed. WoDs were introduced in 3.1 and ended in 3.4. We were led to assume these will be our antagonists for a long period and they gonna bug us for some time. Instead we got rid of them so soon. Their story was ok Lore wise but storytale wise it was rushed. Although it makes sense they wouldn't fit with the Garlean theme and affairs coming in 4.0. They got rid of them to focus on Ala Mhigo and the Garleans. That being said SE didn't lost me in this patch. This patch was brilliant. It gave so much info and revealed so many things. It was pure Loregasm. I just didn't like how soon WoDs ended. We had no character development on those. It was rushed.

I didn't really get the impression they were going to be any more long-term than Lahabrea or Gaius van Baelsar. At the very least, I figured they'd have some role in the transition to 4.0, and they did exactly that: bridge the Heavensward story arc with the plot of 4.0.