As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

**Ashabel** · 09-27-2016 06:14 AM

Jfc dude, you have beat this into the ground for pages now. I don't think you can make your stand point any clearer but repeating the same phrase over and over again doesn't make it right. Healers not DPSing does NOT hold back parties, and it does NOT cause wipes. I don't know what fantasy world you live in but for God's sake have some sense before you spew nonsense about what Healers are supposed to do. 20-30% longer? Are you that desperate to feel justified in your dogmatic (and quite frankly asinine) quest to drag an entire class through the mud because you feel they're inadequate? If you're alive at the end of a dungeon then that Healer did a lot. In fact, they did what they were SUPPOSED to do. Healers DPSing is OPTIONAL, it always will be OPTIONAL, and there's NOTHING that's going to change that.

**FunkyBunch** · 09-27-2016 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by Dogempire

If you're not being lazy with the DPS and your rotations, you'll be too busy to care about whether or not the healer does DPS.

Is healer dps helpful? Yes.

Is it your business whether a healer dpses or not? Not really.

People do a lot of things for a lot of reasons. Don't jump to conclusions about people you never met.

Again, no. If I'm running out of TP or we die because the Healer was being lazy they absolutely should either learn to play the class, play another class or play another game.
Just because I'm doing my rotations doesn't mean I can't notice that Cleric stance is off and everyone is at full health.
It is my business because they're affecting my DF run and that of 3-7 other people.

What I really, really don't understand is that you, and other people think that playing terribly, but only playing terribly as a healer, is okay.
If a NIN didn't use an ninjutsu or Death Blossom on groups of mobs (or poisong), it wouldn't be okay. If a BLM only used ICE spells it wouldn't be okay.
If a Tank only spammed Flash until he was out of MP isn't okay either.
It's the same with a Healer, if they're just spamming Cure or Physick it's not okay either. By level 60, it's definitely not okay for any of those to still be happening.

**FunkyBunch** · 09-27-2016 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Ashabel

Jfc dude, you have beat this into the ground for pages now. I don't think you can make your stand point any clearer but repeating the same phrase over and over again doesn't make it right. Healers not DPSing does NOT hold back parties, and it does NOT cause wipes. I don't know what fantasy world you live in but for God's sake have some sense before you spew nonsense about what Healers are supposed to do. 20-30% longer? Are you that desperate to feel justified in your dogmatic (and quite frankly asinine) quest to drag an entire class through the mud because you feel they're inadequate? If you're alive at the end of a dungeon then that Healer did a lot. In fact, they did what they were SUPPOSED to do. Healers DPSing is OPTIONAL, it always will be OPTIONAL, and there's NOTHING that's going to change that.

I've brought up statistics that show that healers make a huge difference. I've also given examples of how a Healer NOT DPSing will cause a wipe. See the full pull on Fractal for example. The tank doesn't have enough cooldowns and the Healer doesn't have enough HPS to get through the fight if the Healer doesn't throw in some DPS. You will literally die. I'm not going back through FFLOGS a second time to find out specifically how much longer it takes. I did that already under very onerous circumstances to prove to someone who said it didn't matter. It matters.

Further it's not OPTIONAL. A bunch of people think it's optional, but SE specifically decided, after many bad people made it to 60 and were doing healz only, to add text to the game to say that you should DPS when no one needs healing.
To me, and most people with a brain, that means you should DPS a little bit instead of standing around doing jack all.
Just because it's not optional, doesn't mean people will do it. There are tanks that don't use cooldowns, there are NINs who don't AoE. That makes them terrible at their job, that doesn't make those skills optional.

Again, I know I can't force people to be good. But I can certainly state why I think they're bad.
Also, I now do Healer almost exclusively in DF content, because I'm sick and tired of being paired with bad Healers. I saw a problem, and I fixed it.

The problem with Healing is that it's disportionately bad when you have a bad healer. The thing that started to make me realize was that it was the DPSing healers that were good and the non-DPSing healers were bad, was when I saw people die often in Void Ark/Mhach when the Healers were doing zero DPS and when I regularly saw Healers in Cleric Stance I noticed no one was dying regularly that wasn't standing in stupid. And then I started noticing the same thing in DF. The healers being bad and not using Cleric were the same ones letting people die. Which is when I said "enough is enough, I'm doing to do this myself".

**Elspeth** · 09-27-2016 07:39 AM

Alright, lets be reasonable here,

Healing is a job with a fluctuating difficulty curve. If your tank is bad, or your dps are bad, you have to heal more. I play all 3 healer roles, and I personally DPS. I dont particularly care if other healers dont but I dont like just standing around doing nothing. DPSing as a healer is NOT going to make or break a run. If you wipe due to a lack of DPS, its the DPS you point the finger at, not the healer.

Now to answer the question, "Is it my job to DPS as a healer?" the short answer is no. and heres why...

First SE took accuracy off of all healer gear, because they themselves said healer dps isnt something they factor in when designing content, Secondly, in order to not miss you NEED to meld your gear with accuracy materia, Tanks and DPS do not need to do this. Tanks meld STR+DET, and DPS meld CRIT+DET. So no, its not your job, thats what we have dps for.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOU STAND THERE DOING NOTHING IF EVERYONES TOPPED OFF.

Ok, so no, its not your JOB to DPS, but DPSing will make things go faster, and be helpful, but ultimatly its your choice, however if you choose not to heal (ne it on principal, or lack of confidence) heres what you should be doing.

Stoneskin, Adloquium, Succor.

There is no real excuse for anyone to be standing doing nothing, and i know someones gonna tell me "but SE gave healers DPS moves and access to clerics stance" and yes, they did, so healers werent excluded from playing the storyline when 3 muggers attack you on the Road

**FunkyBunch** · 09-27-2016 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by Elspeth

Alright, lets be reasonable here,

Healing is a job with a fluctuating difficulty curve. If your tank is bad, or your dps are bad, you have to heal more. I play all 3 healer roles, and I personally DPS. I dont particularly care if other healers dont but I dont like just standing around doing nothing. DPSing as a healer is NOT going to make or break a run. If you wipe due to a lack of DPS, its the DPS you point the finger at, not the healer.

Now to answer the question, "Is it my job to DPS as a healer?" the short answer is no. and heres why...

First SE took accuracy off of all healer gear, because they themselves said healer dps isnt something they factor in when designing content, Secondly, in order to not miss you NEED to meld your gear with accuracy materia, Tanks and DPS do not need to do this. Tanks meld STR+DET, and DPS meld CRIT+DET. So no, its not your job, thats what we have dps for.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOU STAND THERE DOING NOTHING IF EVERYONES TOPPED OFF.

Ok, so no, its not your JOB to DPS, but DPSing will make things go faster, and be helpful, but ultimatly its your choice, however if you choose not to heal (ne it on principal, or lack of confidence) heres what you should be doing.

Stoneskin, Adloquium, Succor.

There is no real excuse for anyone to be standing doing nothing, and i know someones gonna tell me "but SE gave healers DPS moves and access to clerics stance" and yes, they did, so healers werent excluded from playing the storyline when 3 muggers attack you on the Road

Besides the misrepresentations of game-design and producer commentary, please tell me why the Hall of the Novice says to "weave offensive magicks" if no one is dying? They added that because people were not doing DPS. There's literally no other explanation.
If the developers wanted Healers to not DPS, they didn't need to give them Cleric Stance or DPS skills for the MSQ, the far easier thing to do would be to ("Healer=Y? Then: BIG NPC that needs healing()")

The reason there's no ACC on Healer gear is because Healer Gear is so efficient and they F'd up Materia Melding. If they could meld other stats onto gear, it'd be better to bring 3 healers than 2 healers.
The raid design comment was taken very out of context. It was how they decided to balance it around it not being impossible.
They take the max possible DPS of the DPS classes at min item level, no mechanics, lower it a bit and make that the boss HP+enrage timer.
It's still impossible to actually complete without Healer DPS at the min item level.
It's not a "Healers don't need to DPS", it was a "how do we decide how much HP and time people have to do the raid". But bad players will always look for excuses that makes them think they're not actually bad. Just because people don't think they're bad, doesn't make them good.

**Dogempire** · 09-27-2016 08:43 AM