Why is Yoshi P turning his back on the playerbase that loves this game the most?

[HungryHippo]

That's not entirely true.. We have 500 members in our guild. About 80% have been here since day one and we're still enjoying it

And they all been active since then?

[HungryHippo]

I'd love character progression, but I don't want people to leave the game because it's hard to catch up.

7hours playtime last 3days and 4went to que.

[Reynhart]

Imagine you're new and your friends already finished CoP, and you have to redo all the work. Sure your friends can help you, but imagine somebody completely new looking for that content alone; it'll take longer than the rest since that's old content.

Which wouldn't be a problem if they could unsync it...
Which is what happened anyway. And now, with Trusts, you can clear any "story" content by "yourself". FFXI has evolved, we're not asking for XIV to pick ideas only from the early days.
Besides, Duty Finder and Duty Roulette are preventing this issue a lot. You'll always find someone to do dungeons and trial with you.

7hours playtime last 3days and 4went to que.

You should edit your post to add multiple replies. Daily post limit is a pain

[Andevom]

The man makes an honest comment and people tear him to shreds over it. Is FFXIV really supposed to be the only game to play? I think the producer saying "there's other stuff to play if you're bored right now" is being realistic, rather than a generic cheerleader.

[SwdVengeance]

XIV being an MMO is a little different.

Oh, absolutely, I don't disagree. There's a line at which replaying similar or the same content isn't fun. People seem to think though that the game is somehow bad or flawed, that after doing something a dozen times, having fun with it, it suddenly because tiresome and a slog. People need to be ok with saying, "I'm tired of this, I won't do it anymore". That's not to say I'm excusing content that is lackluster and doesn't have some staying power, but as you said, after 200 days, it will be boring. Yoshi isn't holding you hostage though, you're more than welcome to not pay and not play. I don't mean to sound snide saying that. Oft times I think people's expectations of MMOs is to keep them entertained continuously and definitively. Stopping to play something else is perfectly, and imo absolutely, necessary to continuing to care about any persistent game. Taking breaks for months seems a natural course when you run yourself dry.

And while I understand where you're coming from, projecting on Yoshi doesn't really help your argument.

[Zojha]

the very game is designed that way.

Mhm...Yes and No.

PvE, as such, no matter in what game, has this issue. Every PvE game is necessarily scripted and therefore, repetition causes enjoyment to fall off much faster than in PvP games for example.
Take single-player games - in many of them, everything you do and did becomes entirely obsolete the moment you kill the final boss because the game "ends". Oftentimes, you can't even return from the final dungeon. Nevertheless, people actively strive to attain this obsolence. Strange, right? Not all that strange because people don't actually care that it all becomes obsolete - they want to discover the end, the enjoyment lies in the discovery. And after that? The only option is to start anew entirely. Some will do that, of course, but if the game doesn't actually have much variance over the playthrough, it will get dull fast, since there's not much left to discover. Meanwhile, games like Mass Effect or Chrono Trigger tend to get played through several times.
And what goes for a game as a whole naturally also applies to its parts. If a dungeon has no real variance, either in theory because there are no options or in practice because people only ever want one option, it gets dull fast. Say hello to Dino Island as an example of a practical lack of variance.

And that wouldn't be so bad, if it wasn't an MMO where people rely on other people still playing that content and forming groups. "That" is where you put in rewards that people enjoy. Commonly, two things: Progression, aesthetics. People like me will be far more enticed by aesthetics, while other people will be more enticed by progression and some might actually just want to stroke their ego with exclusivity. Motivation can be varied!

Gameplay as such also plays a role. Discovery, progression, aesthetics etc are all nice and dandy, but if the game plays clunky, unresponsive, too complex and otherwise frustrating to play, all that goes down the drain. Repetition compounds that issue as well.

Bottom line is: It's a bit more difficult than only "rewards".

[Balipu]

Any system will be boring after 200+ days of doing approximatively the same thing over and over.

...

The sad part is that Final Fantasy was especially famous for trying new things over and over, and not resting on the same gameplay element over the years. Nowadays, any kind of innovation will be met with serious fear and distrust.

But would that work in an MMO? I mean it would work for you definitely, otherwise you wouldn't be suggesting it, but still.

For the record I totally agree with you that the game needs some system to make different character builds (lik the speher grid). But in my oppinion that should be a one time change from not having to having. World of Warcraft basically revamps leveling every expansion. And it's super dumb. When I get the chance to level up again I want to feel stronger than i was before. But it doesn't feel like progress if the system I am progressing is totally different. Like when you started to get talent points every 15 levels instead of 10. Congrats, you have a 4th talent point. Cool, that's nice. Yesterday i had 7 but okay.

The tomestone system might be boring, but it gets the job done. Even if I do a dungeon over and over and over again without any useful gear dropping, i still get the tomestones that I can use to get whatever I want.

I'm totally fine with the core systems not changing in expansions (just to be clear a sphere grid is an addition because it wouldn't change the leveling system already in place). Expansions are there to expand. Hence the name. My problem with HW isn't that it's more of the same. In fact it is the opposite. Guildhests, Hunting logs, traits, class skills all went out the window.

[FizzleofHyperion]

Ok let me explain a few more things then.

A few people commenting here must either not understand what I mean or are just directly reading fast through things and commenting.

Hence the first page where a said don't generalize when I'm not speaking for everyone but I'm speaking for thoese who might share the same thoughts as me. If you don't agree that is fine but don't act like I'm speaking for everyone cause I'm not.

As I've mentioned I'm talking to the people who kinda feel the same way I do, you don't have to agree with me to 100% either. Its just annoying when people in this thread intentionally nitpick on things instead of seeing the big picture. It is not the first time this has happened.

Ofcourse I want everyone to catch up. No one wants FFXI 2.0 I'm not sure how many times this community must say that we are not interested in 2.0 yet people always play the same card over and over again.

What people are saying feel free to use elements from 1.0 and FFXI wich made them so good. No one enjoys waiting 6h in jeuno for a party be realistic please.

Yoshi P is using elements from every MMORPG out there BUT 1.0 elements and FFXI wich imo is an remains square enix flagships of MMOs. To some it might be outdated but to the newer generation its most likely something new because it seems that we have all the teenagers from the wow era that are currently adults roaming FFXIV (not that its a bad thing). To them these things can be new content and fresh even if its slightly recycled.
Hence why I say Yoshi P is capable of shaping players with content instead of adapting to players with content all the time.

As I've also said in the first post 1.0 players and FFXI are not some V.I.P customers but they did keep the game alive and wanted something a specific way so ofcourse people might feel let down and maybe used for their money (I'm writing this incase Velhart from Hyperion tries to nitpick as usual).
SE doesn't have to feel they owe anyone anything but still remember without them there would be no FFXIV. I will let that sink in a bit because that is a harsh reality of it.

There so many more things to say honestly but right now I truly beleive that Yoshi-P did not do his research correctly on the matter and I still beleive he has turned his back on the handful of people that kept the game alive and respected their wishes at first but then goes and does something else.
Like I said before its business nothing is personal neither should you nitpick and read into this too much just remember what the first people wanted cause without them this game wouldnt have been where it is today.

It is really not hard to make certain content of the game in a horizontal progression that becomes more rewarding and interesting. It does not even have to be gear related not for one bit some stuff that you know that you can always be rewarded for by devoting time to a game you love and enjoy (like I do) without having to know that whatever I'm doing now is just gonna get nerfed and everyone else will be able to do this without putting in the same effort.
Again for the intentional nitpicking people no its not about using duty finder to minim requirments on dungeons.
I'm refering to actualy things that can give us a slight reward that shows this is what you can get if you like to play this game alot. Why is that such a bad thing? If there are players on FFXIV with families and jobs and still can find time to devote time to this I don't find anyones arguement Valid why you should deserve as much as the person investing more time just because you pay for a sub.

Catching up I understand cause SE will loose customers otherwise but giving enjoyable rewarding content that gives the satisfaction of you earning something in a form of item or minon or whatever thats what I'm refering too.

[SessionZero]

I'm sorry, do you work for Buzzfeed? You could with a thread title like that.

FFXIV is designed exactly the way it needs to be. The players of yore, who devoted hours and hours to vanilla WoW and FFXI, aren't around anymore, or don't have those sorts of hours to devote to games like this because they (we, I suppose, since I'm one of them) have like... lives, and families and stuff. And the new player base has shown more of an interest in team-based competitive titles like League of Legends and Overwatch. That's why every other new title that springs up is a MOBA. That's why Blizzard took the MMO that Overwatch was supposed to be and made it an arena shooter.

Yoshi and his team have seen these trends and tailored FFXIV to this crowd. It's an MMO that is easy to pick up and put down if you've got the time to steamroll content but progression is also fast-paced enough that people like me, who don't have hours upon hours to devote to the game, don't feel like we're not getting anywhere at all. The devs have made this game as close to "best of both worlds" as possible, but being truly "best of both worlds" is quite impossible. When that happens you get forum users creating doomsday threads with hyperbolic titles that...

Oh wait.

[Annah]

So a sample of 400 people...over a playerbase of 700 000
Not relevant, sorry.

it's very relevant when a big majority of beginner players are still here. Take a look at the data sometime

It's pretty nice to be lifted from the veil of ignorance form time to time