Why is Yoshi P turning his back on the playerbase that loves this game the most?

[HungryHippo]

They designed FF14 to fit what their research indicated was going to be successful in the place the MMO marketplace is going. To be honest I kind of agree with him. Even if I did have more time to invest in gaming in general, I still want to have free time to spend doing other games as well..

I played XI for a long time and I had a blast, did I play something else? Yes I did, did I go out often? Yup. I was even on a 1 month and half vacation in US from EU, came back and I could loot dalmatica from adamantoise, get my legs from omega/ultima fight etc. And thing was, even when some people wasn't playing nearly much as others they still had the chance to get loot, because they been there for ages, even when they barely played 8 hours a week. It was all about the end game linkshells you was in etc. This game (FF14) lets you catch up fast, but the catch up has zero meaning to it. You get full 240, then what? It's outdated before the next patch unless you do savage which many doesn't do. Reason? There are many and I'll name a few of them:

Reward not good enough.
4 boss every 6 months
People will be the same iLvl with almost zero effort.

Of course you have one of the players who aren't that great either, but what's the point of effort when you get it nearly free 3 months later, is my point.

This game doesn't need to be XI v2 or closer to the first version of the game, not at all. It's the fact how things are handled currently. People keep saying if we added interesting stuff into gear, its just an illussion. Something about people not be wanted in groups because they don't have what we want etc. This already happens, iLvl restrictions to join, people who do have iLvl but just very bad at the game, the list goes on. iLvl is already a illussion anwyays, higher doesnt mean you will be better. I want to have a little bit more choice for what I want to do in the game and also feel I achived something. Back when game was new, it felt amazing achiving coil, because it was fun, however when you have the same thing going on, it's hard to feel you achived something same time you know this is something you been doing before, just different skins. Dungeons? I could go on all day about this, but they are just fillers for tomestones really. They aren't that bad to do but in all seriousnes I know the most laidback players will end up getting tired of the same thing. The patch cycles are great and they do improve a lot of things in game besides the content, which we ALL appreciate.

[SwdVengeance]

Of course you have one of the players who aren't that great either, but what's the point of effort when you get it nearly free 3 months later, is my point.

I would question if that's not the entirely wrong reason for playing. The reward isn't the gear, it's the defeat of the boss. Gear helps towards that goal, and the subsequent fights against it. The tools shouldn't be what's the driving force behind your motivation, the actual destination should be. I don't contest that this is a common mindset though, but I will continue to protest people shouldn't be so overly glorifying of what ultimately are just a means to an end. Don't misunderstand either, getting gear is a great feeling, but to say it's the ultimate goal is quite backwards.

[HungryHippo]

I would question if that's not the entirely wrong reason for playing.

Yes I do agree with you, the achivement of killing the boss is great, however 6 months of the same 4 bosses, it will make people go insane. However, I'm sure you played XI and if not, yes we did do content, the very same one for years, however we had so much mixed up stuff. Now we are kinda forced to do 4 same bosses at end game. Yes we can do the other stuff as well, but they aren't relevant at all, due to the things we get plus the achivement is already achived, because you killed the boss. I don't mind doing the same fights again and again, however, there is lack of mix at the end game.

[SwdVengeance]

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While I agree, 6 months of the same raid content is tiring, I would debate that XI had more endgame though. Content per time seems about equal between the two unless my memory is failing me. XI didn't toss us new raids or bosses all that frequently, XIV we get a good chunk of bosses every 4-6 months. I don't know how XI evolved after Art, but at least in those earlier years grinding Dynamis far exceeded the annoyance and pain of repeating Alexander, at least for me. Most of XI's endgame content consisted of long fights against massively large HP sponges, during which I would stand in a single spot and slap a dozen macros in order for the duration. Mechanically comparing the two, I just find XIV's far more entertaining just to do. Sure, we could move form Bastok Dynamis to Sandy, but that amounts to what in all honesty? A slight pallet swap of terrain and handful of slightly varied mechanics. To be fair, most endgame content in XI didn't really vary much from each other. While there was a lot of it, did Dynamis really vary that much form each other, did Sky NMs all seem that different than any other world NM? Didn't seem that way to me. At least comparing bosses in XIV comes with an entirely different set of mechanics to do and learn.

I will grant you, in XIV, seeing the same boss, on a weekly if not multiple times weekly, basis, isn't great. In XI you wouldn't often fight the same thing more than once a month possibly, though that was more the fact the rarity of a lot of end game content was based on, could you get it instead of someone else.

[HungryHippo]

While I agree, 6 months of the same raid content is tiring, I would debate that XI had more endgame though

Actually an expansion pack(treasure of something) had a lot more content that was viable and worth for a damn long time than whole HW had included patches. I might be wrong on this one, but I remember someone comparing. Again I don't want this game to be another XI. But it's also the fact I don't think it ever could be like it either.

If there was no LS event I could screw off and do lets say 7 man Jormugand, 6 man hydra or 5 man. I could do stuff that could give me my type of entertainment(I'm saying this because not everyone likes the same type of stuff). While I obtain fun plus rewards I like. Think of this way, we have a lot of different content in this game but the lack of fighting content is there, a huge lack. Never force people to do gathering when some people don't even like it. The most ironic thing is few people on these forum say there is so much to do, yet they barely done anything and then say in another thread gathering is boring, then tells people to do it. /Mindblown.

[SwdVengeance]

snip

I just don't agree. While the tools you need to kill the boss are a goal, they aren't the ultimate goal. I never said killing the boss was the only goal either, I recognize that gear is a reward as well, however always secondary to the bosses. If gear was the point, there would be ultimately no need for the boss, because the goal could be obtained without it. No matter what path you take to get gear in this game, it requires killing bosses to obtain with the minor exception to crafted gear which provides it's own form of endgame.


To you're point of 'value', it's seems a highly flawed argument. Does one, upon graduating college suddenly feel completely high school sad? Does one find completing a marathon suddenly feel at a loss that they did a half marathon the previous year? Over time people are going to progress past challenges, and old ones will become less of a challenge because of what's gained. This problem is more complex when speaking about persistent video games, as not everything that trivializes a previous challenge is under the control of the player. This is where I feel most suddenly find loss when a previous challenge is lessened by something external to themselves. However, the feeling isn't wholly justified. The challenge was still present when they accomplished it, they still triumphed over it, and they gained something for having done it. By taking away the challenge, they don't ever take away your accomplishment. This disconnect people have with the idea that, just because a certain challenge is easier now, it somehow minimalism their accomplished baffles me a bit. The original experience is, for the most part in XIV, perfectly repeatable on almost every fight there is, via level sync/limiting your own gear. While it may not be the case with you, this is the main hinging point I feel for where people start to feel less power as a character because accessibility to accomplishing something they did, increases. The more people that accomplish something, the less powerful one feels, now matter if the challenge remains the same between the two.

At the core, this disagreement goes beyond FFXIV to apply to just about any and all video games. At what point does someone desire to replay something? If all rewards for accomplishing a game are stripped upon subsequent playthroughs, what's the point? If rewards aren't stripped away, but only the difficulty changes with no new rewards, why do it? I would again contest, it's the bosses/fights. You play the game to, well, 'play' the game. Gear only modifies you're playing, doesn't define it, the challenges you face do. Gear growth and item scaling aren't the core issue of why people stop playing or the loss of value of what one accomplishes. It's the mindset that those rewards are ultimately a definition of your characters, and in turn, your power/growth and should something outside yourself change that, you've been stripped of something.

Actually an expansion pack(treasure of something) had a lot more content that was viable and worth for a damn long time than whole HW had included patches.

Admittedly, Treasures was when I stopped playing so I can't speak from experience. However, that was the first North American based expansion they gave us, which was 3 whole years past the original launch. Content added between launch and that expansion was scarce at best. We had tons of it, but if you had seen it all you never got more. I haven't gone back and counted it all, but I would argue the amount of content we get total in XIV is about equivalent to XI during the lifespan of an expansion. Granted, I have no idea how the landscape changed after Aht expansion in XI.

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I wouldn't be against seeing something like this, perhaps in it's own section of content. Not really XI type encounters, but XIV designed encounters with an air of randomness to them. Though there was a reason I believe this wasn't revisited, at least in XI, there were fights where you were basically screwed should the boss decide to throw two of something at you back to back. Rng isn't often spoken well of from my experience. While I know, and empathize with your feelings about muscle memory bosses, the alternative isn't without large issues. I can see a portion of the community being extremely upset at this as it's impossible to gain perfect efficiently on due to the randomness.

[HungryHippo]

XI had 2 expansion in 3 years. Yes the game Came out later in na and EU but they were fast

[Reynhart]

At the core, this disagreement goes beyond FFXIV to apply to just about any and all video games.

XIV being an MMO is a little different. I payed XIII once to be able to play anytime I want, and it took me around 100 hours to complete.
XIV asks me to pay every month, and my playtime is around 250 days. Any system will be boring after 200+ days of doing approximatively the same thing over and over.

And when Yoshida said that it's totally ok to play something else, I'm sure he meant "Just play a few hours per week and the game will always have something fresh...but please, continue your subscription fee". Sorry, but it bothers me to pay each month for that.

The sad part is that Final Fantasy was especially famous for trying new things over and over, and not resting on the same gameplay element over the years. Nowadays, any kind of innovation will be met with serious fear and distrust.

[Dzian]

To you're point of 'value', it's seems a highly flawed argument. Does one, upon graduating college suddenly feel completely high school sad? Does one find completing a marathon suddenly feel at a loss that they did a half marathon the previous year? Over time people are going to progress past challenges,

Think you're misunderstanding my point. doing a full marathon doesn't negate a half marathon for example. the marathon stays consistent in length. so every runner that completes that marathon does the exact same challenge of 26 miles. at no point do they decide to knock the distance of a full marathon down to 20 miles so more people can complete one for example..

think of it this way. you get to 18 years old or whatever age you can learn to drive. cough up hundreds of dollars on driving lessons and tests countless hours of practice and finally you get a licence. woot! big congrats arguably the most important qualification you will ever get... However then next month for whatever reason they scrap the license system and just let anyone drive... suddenly all that time and money you ivested in getting your license is worthless..

but yeah the point is that no matter how you look at it. everyone that's completed a marathon has done the exact same distance. and because of that completing a marathon retians it "value"

nothing in the game holds any value. which is why people don't bother with the challenges

[Genaxx]

I would question if that's not the entirely wrong reason for playing. The reward isn't the gear, it's the defeat of the boss. Gear helps towards that goal, and the subsequent fights against it. The tools shouldn't be what's the driving force behind your motivation, the actual destination should be. I don't contest that this is a common mindset though, but I will continue to protest people shouldn't be so overly glorifying of what ultimately are just a means to an end. Don't misunderstand either, getting gear is a great feeling, but to say it's the ultimate goal is quite backwards.

I thought the goal was to get the best glamour and idle in idleshire?

One day i'll be cool enough to stand up there..