Square Enix: Please reconsider putting the Native American war bonnet attire in-game.

[Anselmet]

[QUOTE=Masquerade;3854975]Asking people what skin color they are is what would "take the spotlight away from legitimate issues." It's a question that is being asked as a way to discredit.
It suggests that if person X is not a apart of the race/culture/religion/ect. that they are speaking out for, then their argument has no merit.

Asking people what skin color they are is what would "take the spotlight away from legitimate issues." It's a question that is being asked as a way to discredit.
It suggests that if person X is not a apart of the race/culture/religion/ect. that they are speaking out for, then their argument has no merit.

It like last year with Rachel Dolezal. Shes a civil rights activist and was president of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.
Before she publicly stated that she was biological born white, but she identifies herself as black, there was that huge deal of people wanting to know what color she really is. Even tho her being white or black had zero to do with her work and achievement.

Honesty, I am not going to get into the whole Rachel Dolezal because it is NOT the same thing. This person started a thread claiming that the headdress was a war bonnet there for square is doing a terrible thing. As someone who is Native America, I can clearly see it is not but a roach. If she identified as a Native American, then goodness gracious me, then she should know some basic things about the culture she is claiming. And if it is the clothing, then what exactly offends her? The fact that square is making a culturally neutral clothing? The once upon a time everyday clothing is now taboo? That is weird seeing how most of us love to dress up our friends in beaded clothing and it is not a big deal. She, a non Native American, decided she was going to speak up about an issue she knows nothing about to get 'merit points' so she can feel better. You had better bet I am going to wonder what her ethnicity is, because when it comes to light that she is just another non native speaking up about issues she doesn't understand it makes her argument fall flat and she on her face. Which I am sorry, this is an issue we face all the damn time. People speaking up for us and yet speaking over us. Do you know how damn annoying that is?

[Vantilles]

Makes sense, thank you. I did a lot of study in college of more western tribes, Utes, Paiute, Navajo, Shoshone. Just some white guy, but always found the culture interesting.

For the record, I wish it didn't matter. I think there is a big difference between wishing these things didn't matter and denying it does matter and a lot of people miss that. I just want everyone to be able to enjoy the artistic nature of our world and not piss anyone off.

You are probably more educated than most. Even if you are 'just some white guy', showing a basic level of awareness is commendable and appreciated.

[hydralus]

Native Americans don't exist in the game, so I don't see how it could possibly be a Native American war bonnet.

[CaptainLagbeard]

-removed due ot character limit-

Yea I can see how appropriation at severe levels would be an issue, but this... This is an outfit in a video game, that's far from severe. And there's several other outfits that are just as much of a "problem", but nobody is crying out...

But what I'm mostly saying is that if people are bringing up the issue for them, and none of them pick up the argument and don't consider it an issue, it doesn't exactly make the people bringing it up look all that good...

[Lokier]

but using the colors of a specific tribe for the Kilts without permission is offending o.o/

Hah, as if the Scottish have any rights over the kilt, we stole it from another "tribe" a long time ago, like everything else. :P

The only thing that would be an issue would the coat of arms, you have to pay the government to use your family crest, but that's a different kettle of fish. x)

[Aillith]

Oh boy. The moment I saw the gear I knew this thread was incoming.

SE is trying to be inclusive to all different cultures and peoples. We have clothing items inspired by the world over - and now those more tribal cultures are having their turn at being included and represented.

You don't celebrate and honour diversity by hiding it away so no one can see. Put it out there. Let people see, hear, and interact with it. It makes the world a better place to share cultures and stories.

[D-chan]

I’m kind of in the middle ground on this whole thing (which imo as a non-Native is where I should be) but can we stop making jokes/comparisons like “Well I’m British, so I think we should remove top hats, that’s my culture!!” Regardless of your thoughts on the in game headdress and regardless of what kind of real world headdress it is meant to represent, there are Native American tribes where certain headdresses hold religious meaning and are sacred only to be worn by certain people/on certain occasions. These tribes and cultures and their practices still exist today and face enough oppression and difficulties. That’s not comparable to some random, meaningless article of clothing correctly or incorrectly attributed to a certain culture, past or present.

[Musashidon]

That’s not comparable to some random, meaningless article of clothing correctly or incorrectly attributed to a certain culture, past or present.

it completely is. clothing is clothing in the end.

someone putting on a graduation hat even if they didn't graduation doesn't effect anyone who has worn one and graduated.

[Masquerade]

[QUOTE=Anselmet;3855105]

She, a non Native American, decided she was going to speak up about an issue she knows nothing about to get 'merit points' so she can feel better. You had better bet I am going to wonder what her ethnicity is, because when it comes to light that she is just another non native speaking up about issues she doesn't understand it makes her argument fall flat and she on her face. Which I am sorry, this is an issue we face all the damn time. People speaking up for us and yet speaking over us. Do you know how damn annoying that is?

I can understand that. I mean technically every post on here is guilty of that. Each comment posted can be divided into of the three categories,.


1. It's racist.
2. It's not racist.
3. Be it racist or not it does not matter.

But no, skin color still does not matter for such an argument. Like with Dolezal being born white, does not effect all the work she has done in civil rights for americans of color.

Even with this post. Let's just assume the OP is of Native descent. Never had much interest in her heritage, and the little she knows is just what she can remember from Social Studies class when she was Elementary school 10+ years ago.
Now take hypothetical white/black/asian person X. Has a strong interest in Native culture and history. Took elective classes in highschool and college on the subject.

If they both weighed in on the thread, who's words would have more merit in this?
Native OP who knows next to nothing about it? Or white/black/asian person who devoted years into learning about Native history-to-present day?

EDIT
He must have removed his post or something. The quote bubble say's that I am quoting myself, when those words belong to another users.

[D-chan]

it completely is. clothing is clothing in the end.

someone putting on a graduation hat even if they didn't graduation doesn't effect anyone who has worn one and graduated.

Graduation isn't a religious/cultural ceremony and graduates are not an oppressed group of people. Graduation caps have a ceremonial meaning, but it is not a religious/sacred one. Breaking a social norm by wearing a graduation cap outside of a graduation is not an accurate comparison to stomping all over a culture/religion by wearing their holy artifacts incorrectly. You can be okay with both of those things (though I think that speaks measures about your character, and not in a good way), but they are not the same.