Should PLD and WAR get gap-closers at 70?

[Reynhart]

Considering they implemented the double cross-hotbar, I really think they'll give us new actions in 4.0.

[Kages]

Considering they implemented the double cross-hotbar, I really think they'll give us new actions in 4.0.

That's a controller-specific thing though.
Let's first consider that every class gets 11 job skills, 5 cross-class abilities (of varying usefulness) and around 18 class abilities (of varying usefulness). I'm not even counting stuff like stat-potions, sprint, LB here.
If you use a keyboard (as a majority of players do (as far as I know)), you get 12 hotkey-slots per bar, which means getting 36 hotkey-slots through 3 bars. Which is already pretty much full considering we get around that much abilities right now. If we further consider, that the amount of hotkeys, that can be accessed fast enough to not lose DPS due to skipping GCD is limited (which it is (not considering stuff like MMO-mouses etc. here)), it becomes even worse.
We can also consider Yoshi's statement that 3.0's rotations proved to be to difficult for a majority of the player base (I'm not arguing whether this is true or not, just stating the assertion) and that the skillsystem may become more akin to 2.0 in patch 4.0. So we may probably expect new skills, but no increase (rather a decrease) in complexity.
So tl;dr: I also think we will get new actions in 4.0 (in whatever form), but proving this through a double cross-bar, that only a fraction of the player-base actually uses, isn't pretty valid imo.

[Reynhart]

That's a controller-specific thing though.

Because you can already display 8 hotbars

Considering the somehow long GCD, you have enough time to click on them, while saving hotkeys for most of your oGCD skill.

If you use a keyboard (as a majority of players do (as far as I know))

If you look at the sales, the game is pretty evenly split between PC and consoles. Since some PC players also use a gamepad, I'm not really sure it's a distinct majority. It used to be this for MMO in general but very few of them actually took the time to support controlers properly.

[Kages]

Because you can already access 8 hotbars with a mouse
Considering the somehow long GCD, you have enough time to click on them, while saving hotkeys for most of your oGCD skill.

Yes, you can access 8 hotbars, you probably could access even more, but do you really think that playing with 8 hotbars is feasible? (I rly imagine my screen being filled with 8+ hotbars, that are actually used via hotkey... the horror,lol xD)
E.g. you already clip GCD on NIN most of the time just pressing three Mudras (some ppl with a crappy connection even clip GCD just pressing two Mudras), which is just muscle memory and way faster than clicking the mudras or pretty much every skill with your mouse.
"Somehow long GCD" is subjective aswell, as some classes have way lower GCD's (e.g. NIN/MNK), so it's unlikely for SE to screw specific classes over.
It's also not the best idea considering QoL (as said above).

If you look at the sales, the game is pretty evenly split between PC and consoles. Since some PC players also use a gamepad, I'm not really sure it's a distinct majority. It used to be this for MMO in general but very few of them actually took the time to support controlers properly.

Even if it's 50:50 they probably won't screw any part of the population over or prefer any part of the population, as long as there are methods to provide new skills without bloating hotkeys any further.

[P4X0R10N]

Like I said gap closers are useful prolly only in pvp. All melee classes need to get close to do damage just as how all casters need abilities to defend themselves against melee. Like bind or knockback.

What's wrong with giving wars a gap closer that's helpful in pvp but only marginally useful in pve?

The simplest thing they can do is remove the self binding portion of Holmgang. And maybe increase the range a bit.

All tanks gave gap closers in Wow and each tank still have their own identity. I don't see why people are arguing so hard against a simple request that isn't gonna break the game in anyway?

[Fannah]

They could just add a new pvp skill which is a gap closer for tanks to be sure to don't affect the pve style.

[Kages]

Like bind or knockback.

Most of the current movement abilities (e.g. Plunge) don't even work while bound afaik, so it is indeed too much to ask for a gap-closer that's usable while bound.

What's wrong with giving wars a gap closer that's helpful in pvp but only marginally useful in pve?

There's nothing inherently wrong with that. That's what PvP-Skills are for though. So it's really unlikely we will get skills through lvling up, which are balanced around PvP, instead of getting the regular PvP-only skills.
If they grant the other tanks gap-closers as PvP-only skills, DRK would nontheless need tweaks for PvP.

All tanks gave gap closers in Wow and each tank still have their own identity. I don't see why people are arguing so hard against a simple request that isn't gonna break the game in anyway?

Most people didn't argue against gap-closers per se (me included). These skills just aren't useful in the current (PvE-) meta. Easy as that. If PvP is the only concern, then it's possible to implement PvP-only gap-closers (although the thread-topic stated getting gap-closers as the cap rises to (probably) lvl 70, so we were most likely talking about PvE here).
People would probably like new skills with unique uses instead of carbon-copies of existing skills for 4.0. That doesn't mean that copying specific concepts couldn't be a good idea aswell when there're other new concepts/mechanics building upon them.
On a further note: Developing carbon-copies of existing skills also takes away development time (although less than usual), which is also why people oppose the idea. People would like to see that the developers use their development time to create something new and not carbon-copying stuff because "WoW has it aswell".

[Fannah]

On a further note: Developing carbon-copies of existing skills also takes away development time (although less than usual), which is also why people oppose the idea. People would like to see that the developers use their development time to create something new

I can't agree, we need good design, not irrelevant mecanics for the sake of making new mecanics. If it's done on purpose and chosen wisely, there is nothing wrong to make a similar move (not necessary a pure copy). And above that, this gained time can be used for something else after, which is not a problem in this case (I hope they are not like "I have X time to work on that mecanic, let's copy paste that... ok done, I'll give my results at the deadline and wait"). And after all, if they don't want to add a gap-closer, we can just ask for a move increasing mobility in a general way, not necessarily a pure gap-closer as an instant dash/tp.

[SyzzleSpark]

So first this thread was like "we like Plunge, give us Plunge" and now its like "gap closers aren't that good"...

[Fannah]

It's called a discussion, which is a good way to make ideas progress. And every people are not the others. We arrive, read everything, and give our point of view. The fact that the 1rst ones said gap closer are great or are hardly against doesn't mean the next ones have to share their point of view, and despite of that, they are still trying to look for another way to upgrade tanks' mobility.