As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[FunkyBunch]

That's the mentality I have an issue with. If you want someone to do something outside their initial role, understand that is your personal want, and if the other person decides they do not want to do it, respect that and do not shame them.

It's not outside their initial role. FFS, the Hall of the Novice bloody tells you to DPS when no one needs healing. They even changed the text to add that.
It's the I have a Green Icon so I can stand around doing jack squat 90% of the time and be lazy is the attitude I have a problem with.

If they can't even do what the Hall of the Novice says, (DPS when no one needs Healing) they should either learn a class they can play properly, or go play another game.

It's pretty sad, when a level 60 BLM/NIN decides to try out SCH and consistently is better than most other healers despite having zero experience.
I've had players get mad at me because they're DPS and I out DPS them.

[KokonoeAiyoko]

If you're a BLM and are not using Apoc on the tank, you're a bad BLM.

If you're a NIN and are not using Shadewalker or Goad when needed, you're a bad NIN.

If you're a Bard and are not using Foe Requiem, you're a bad Bard.

I just gave 3 examples that are much closer to the healer DPS analogy than the examples you gave. Want me to go on?

Actually, my example is more accurate because Goad and Apoc are two abilities that cannot be used on oneself and thus designed to be used on someone else as part of your kit.

The examples I have given directly have you yourself focus on your own damage, something that isn't part of your role as DPS and are cross-abilities that can either heal you or mitigate damage, or increase the healer's healing ability.

A Bard using Second Wind can save the healer from having to heal and let them DPS a few seconds longer, using Keen Flurry can mitigate around 15-20% damage at times and thus save the Healer MP, but you don't see people using it much in dungeons do you?

I do all I can at all times, but again somehow you think that ANY DPS AT ALL as a healer is equivalent to maximizing every other class ever.
As a SCH, I consistently get the the top or near the top DPS wise along with keeping everyone alive, now that I finally unlocked Stoneskin it's even easier. As a BLM, I get the top DPS and use Apoc and Virus. As a NIN I get near the top DPS and use Shadewalker on the Tank so they can stay in DPS stance longer and Goad on any of my TPless friends and Trick Attack whenever it's off cooldown.
I also heal myself whenever it's off cooldown and I need a bit of healing.

Well, is it not attempting to maximize to focus on a role outside the intended main role in a party? You are technically trying to strive for more damage and swapping between a stance that makes your healing very weak for the sole purpose of making a dungeon go faster. That does sound like striving to maximize all what you are capable of.

For the second part, refer to my previous reply to the person I quoted above yours.

It's not outside their initial role.

Healing is their role, that's why they are referred to as Healer, anything else is a bonus. When the game starts being designed around Healer DPS, that is when it becomes their mandatory role to DPS and not an optional choice to help defeat a Savage run, or to speed along a Dungeon run.

FFS, the Hall of the Novice bloody tells you to DPS when no one needs healing. They even changed the text to add that.

Actually, they don't tell you to DPS at all. They state that it might be possible to also DPS at times if you have the time for it.



They also go on about focusing on healing afterwards, twice.

It's the I have a Green Icon so I can stand around doing jack squat 90% of the time and be lazy is the attitude I have a problem with.

Do you realize that some people might not actually be as skilled as you are and cannot DPS and heal due to coordination issues? Or being inexperienced? Or that some people would rather focus on keeping the party alive then speeding up a dungeon by however percent to swap into Cleric Stance? Not everyone can handle this, and to some people they aren't merely "standing around", they are just as engaged in the fight as you are, they just don't have the same skill level.

If they can't even do what the Hall of the Novice says, (DPS when no one needs Healing) they should either learn a class they can play properly, or go play another game.

Disgusting behavior. It's examples like this of what I have an issue with. Mandating someone do something their way, or what they personally perceive as mandatory or competent, and if that person doesn't live up to their expectations, go play another game.

It's pretty sad, when a level 60 BLM/NIN decides to try out SCH and consistently is better than most other healers despite having zero experience.
I've had players get mad at me because they're DPS and I out DPS them.

Sounds like you're pretty proud of yourself here. Congratulations on being able to DPS on Scholar, the easiest of the jobs to Stance Dance with, after playing two DPS jobs to level 60.

Clearly those healers who cannot DPS anywhere close to you are bad at healing when they keep everyone alive throughout the run.

[zuzu-bq]

Sounds like you're pretty proud of yourself here. Congratulations on being able to DPS on Scholar, the easiest of the jobs to Stance Dance with, after playing two DPS jobs to level 60.

I agree with your whole post, maybe not on the aggressiveness but your points are solid, and your mention about SCH is what made me quit the job. Too many SCHs get away with just cleric stancing forever.

[fantasticm]

I agree with your whole post, maybe not on the aggressiveness but your points are solid, and your mention about SCH is what made me quit the job. Too many SCHs get away with just cleric stancing forever.

What do you mean, "get away with?" If a SCH can keep the party alive, get the run done, all while being in Cleric Stance for well over half the run, what are they getting away with? Being good at their job?

[zuzu-bq]

As in they never heal. Some don't even use Deploy.

[fantasticm]

As in they never heal. Some don't even use Deploy.

I mean yeah, some content doesn't require scholars to heal at all anymore... But if you get into an expert, or Weeping City, with a scholar that refuses to heal, then they're just bad. The only thing they're getting away with there is wasting people's time. On the other hand, a scholar that is full-time clerics in Satasha NM is doing everyone a favor. Nobody wants to be in that place longer than they have to.

[Dogempire]

As in they never heal. Some don't even use Deploy.

It's not necessary, but I try to remember to use it when I Aldo a tank in case a melee DPS messes up.

[zuzu-bq]

It's not necessary, but I try to remember to use it when I Aldo a tank in case a melee DPS messes up.

What I mean is that not even that they do.

Also it not only depends on your tanks but how your whole party play with their defensive utility skills too.

[Dogempire]

I agree with your whole post, maybe not on the aggressiveness but your points are solid, and your mention about SCH is what made me quit the job. Too many SCHs get away with just cleric stancing forever.

Depends on the party and the tank, some tanks space their cooldowns well to the point Eos/Selene are enough to sustain them for 20+ seconds.

I'm not sure if you have a scholar, but I can't be bothered to check. When I'm dpsing I'm predicting incoming damage and mitigating/healing accordingly. The way I see it, the more skilled the healer, the more time you can stay in cleric stance before having to leave.

[Lambdafish]

snip

As a tank: is it ok for me to skip maim and storms eye as a WAR? is it ok for me to never goring blade or royal authority anything on PLD? That is closer in line because tank damage isn't part of fights either, and you know, its not my job to dps, only keep hate with my enmity combo.

Do you realize that some people might not actually be as skilled as you are and cannot DPS and heal due to coordination issues? Or being inexperienced? Or that some people would rather focus on keeping the party alive then speeding up a dungeon by however percent to swap into Cleric Stance? Not everyone can handle this, and to some people they aren't merely "standing around", they are just as engaged in the fight as you are, they just don't have the same skill level.

Cleric stance isn't mentioned, you can throw out dots (even if its just dots) without cleric stance in between cures, in dungeon runs there is plenty of downtime, enough time to throw out a dot or two without any hardship at all. Yes cleric stance is something that is a bonus , and skilled healers will definately stance dance and show off their pro skills, an average to amateur healer can throw out their basic dots and keep their safety net of extra healing as needed without an issue.