WoW Legion uses FFXI style for relics but FFXIV does not?

[Sandpark]

What I don't understand is why they don't just do both.

Oh hey you need 100,000 casual points to get your weapon.

A FATE gives 50
An old HW dungeon gives 100
An "expert" dungeon gives 200
a 24 man raid gives 500
An old HW extreme primal gives 700
A current Extreme Primal gives 1000
An ilvl synced extreme primal gives 5000
A current raid boss gives 10,000

Instead it's "we want to subsidize the Duty Finder so go do a trivial thing you've already done a hundred times"

The problem is that regardless of how they reward, that still doesn't fix the issue of an in-between extreme difficulty or extreme grind. That suggestion is grindy for a casual,midcore, and hardcore. That's 2000 fates, 1,000 HW dungeons, 200 raids, 500 expert dungeons, 142 HW extreme primals, 100 current extreme primals, the only part that isn't as grindy is ilvl synced extreme primal for 20 completions and 10 raid bosses.

My issue with the relics period is lack of narrative and the repeated participation in a style of event over and over. It doesn't matter how hard or easy it is. If you don't like doing something now, the reward won't make you like doing it more.

Solutions for Relics:

• Fate Chains with tiers sort of similar to zenis, gives fate lovers incentives to progress tiers. The tiers have increased narrative and some added difficulty as you progress in tiers.
• Normal and extreme Dungeons, during the relic quest lines there will be added stories and extended goals in existing dungeons. Example, in one tier a Warrior Of Darkness could attack mid dungeon, your weapon could be stolen, shatter, etc must be reclaimed or fixed.
• Raids relics would power up for completing goals and bosses inside raids.

Like I said, you add tiers, and not just to fates but to various progressive events. You wanna stay at tier 1 because it is easily accessible and not frustrating, it will take longer but you have it. Want to progress faster in spurts? Then move up the tiers, the higher tier you go, the inclusion of daily/weekly cooldowns keep you from spamming to prevent early completion and content exertion.

[loreleidiangelo]

What I don't understand is why they don't just do both.

Oh hey you need 100,000 casual points to get your weapon.

A FATE gives 50
An old HW dungeon gives 100
An "expert" dungeon gives 200
a 24 man raid gives 500
An old HW extreme primal gives 700
A current Extreme Primal gives 1000
An ilvl synced extreme primal gives 5000
A current raid boss gives 10,000

Instead it's "we want to subsidize the Duty Finder so go do a trivial thing you've already done a hundred times"

I'd probably enjoy this game a lot more if Tomestone caps were handled the same way. Give me a super-hard difficulty tier for my expert dungeon that I only have to run 3 times a week to cap, instead of 6 days in a row of a 20-minute mass-pull snoozefest. Leave the easy option there for people who pug, or can't do difficult content, or don't WANT to do difficult content, but at least give SOME modicum of skill acknowledgement amidst our time-gated gear progression treadmill. The ez-mode player and I will still cap for the week, but I'll do it a last faster and my daily dungeon runs will feel like a hell of a lot less of a chore.

This is kind of off-topic though; sorry for the derail.

[Leigaon]

I'd probably enjoy this game a lot more if Tomestone caps were handled the same way...

They already are, just to a lesser extent. So what the new light/tome content could comes up as is you don't do super hard 3 times and cap, instead you have a bonus for the week that you can do X amount of times then it diminishes to very little forcing you to another raid or fight. So would it be okay to increase leveling and trial roulettes for tomes, you can perform only X times a week then after that everything in that category gives you little to none? This would include expert roulettes also, alexander raids, coils, crystal towers.

More I think about it, more I would like it. It may eventually force me to get out of my comfort zone but it would make me a better player.

I think it shows though that we do need an increase of tomes across the board from those who don't want to do the expert roulettes every single day, but do other things whether it's higher raid content or lower.

[Awful]

Snip

I know a lot of people played FF XI and I know when people talk about Dynamis and what not I have no clue what they're talking about however, my IRL friends played FF XI and when we had get togethers 3 of us would be playing WoW and the other 2 played FF XI. They only briefly talked about the relic but the way they talked about it wasn't epic or intuitive it was 200 mobs you had to kill and then another 200 and another etc which is just another time sink from my perspective. I read back to the relic quests today about FF XI and they're more of the same like the 5 stages they talk about to upgrade your weapon you have to wait 2 hours? Why? It's more gated time sinking to cater to a weapon that'll take 1 day and then another 2 hours to wait again. That's about all i'm going to comment since I have no experience but that's what my friends were doing back then and it wasn't hard just tedious for them to be like well I have to wait a few hours now i'll take a nap.

I did like the idea that it grew with you as being your mainstay weapon i'll give it that but FF XIV has nothing like this and If it was more like Legions since I can grab points from it as it's really well done and feels rewarding to the point where adding a new artifact relic item that's higher ilvl with the desired + trait feels amazing. But after player FF XIV and having friends that played FF XI with them spending countless weekends grinding I can see the old school grind but reading up on it and watching them play and talking to them now (2016) it was more tedious and less challenging to them and comparing it to FF XIV that's what FF XIV is in terms of relic grinding, just tedious and a time sink rather then growing with your character. Those are the only differences from a not FF XI player.

[FizzleofHyperion]

Its just as I mentioned before there are so many options to come close to the current level of a relic or atleast 5 ilvls below and its been like this for a while. I just dont understand how 1 thing I repeat this one thing could have been more sacred.
People who have commented here seem to intentionally not read what I actually mean.

There are currently 3 ways to get decent ilvl weapons that are close to the relic.
Isnt 3 ways enough? Can't the 4th option be different?

I don't think the game would break it because of it I think it would improve!

quite the opposite you will get people that will dedicate time to it because it feels like it would be worth the time and effort

[Stormfur]

For someone who has never played WoW and the only thing I know about Legion is that there is a magic weapon, can someone explain what's better about their method versus ours?

[Remedi]

Honestly artifacts and relics accomplish different objectives to the point I question why this is a discussion

[Morningstar1337]

Honestly artifacts and relics accomplish different objectives to the point I question why this is a discussion

Becuase they are all ultimately, iconic weapons of the Class they represent. Think about it. All the Jobmasters have these weapons. The charatcer art for the classes have these weapons (Eso weapons count), Derplander has a Bravura and a Brinoac and the Warriors of Darkness have relics.

Likewise with all I knoe about the artifacts (from this thread) I assume that this is also the case for them. Legendary iconic weapons that the playwer would canonically be depicted with

[Sandpark]

To tell you the truth I wish there was relic armors as well that upgraded. I associate gear as more repeated iconic sets to Final Fantasy. Artifact Armor is the core visual identity each job is based off.

[Welsper59]

I know a lot of people played FF XI and I know when people talk about Dynamis and what not I have no clue what they're talking about however, my IRL friends played FF XI and when we had get togethers 3 of us would be playing WoW and the other 2 played FF XI. They only briefly talked about the relic but the way they talked about it wasn't epic or intuitive it was 200 mobs you had to kill and then another 200 and another etc which is just another time sink from my perspective. I read back to the relic quests today about FF XI and they're more of the same like the 5 stages they talk about to upgrade your weapon you have to wait 2 hours? Why? It's more gated time sinking to cater to a weapon that'll take 1 day and then another 2 hours to wait again. That's about all i'm going to comment since I have no experience but that's what my friends were doing back then and it wasn't hard just tedious for them to be like well I have to wait a few hours now i'll take a nap.

I did like the idea that it grew with you as being your mainstay weapon i'll give it that but FF XIV has nothing like this and If it was more like Legions since I can grab points from it as it's really well done and feels rewarding to the point where adding a new artifact relic item that's higher ilvl with the desired + trait feels amazing. But after player FF XIV and having friends that played FF XI with them spending countless weekends grinding I can see the old school grind but reading up on it and watching them play and talking to them now (2016) it was more tedious and less challenging to them and comparing it to FF XIV that's what FF XIV is in terms of relic grinding, just tedious and a time sink rather then growing with your character. Those are the only differences from a not FF XI player.

The original vanilla relic acquisition in XI was not as grindy, since it only involved currency that you could slowly farm in a raid for and buy from other players, wait times to turn in a finished stage and wait X days/weeks until it was ready (recent nerfs dropped its wait times to hours), and killing specific bosses for relic stage requirements. My use of "only" is a huge understatement though... as in the effort it took is something this game hasn't even begun to make players experience, outside of any world first folks' efforts. Still, Dynamis was a generally fun experience even after a hundred times (though that's subject from person to person as to when tedium hits lol). It was only after the level cap increase that those stupid use Relic WS 200 times on X mob type became a thing, and the mindnumbing grind really began.

Legions Legendary weapons progression is interesting to say the least. The endgame frontier player will potentially avoid the significant amount of time a casual easy-mode player has to spend upgrading. How their ease of requirements will affect perspectives as the expansion goes on is yet to be determined though.

Becuase they are all ultimately, iconic weapons of the Class they represent. Think about it. All the Jobmasters have these weapons. The charatcer art for the classes have these weapons (Eso weapons count), Derplander has a Bravura and a Brinoac and the Warriors of Darkness have relics.

Likewise with all I knoe about the artifacts (from this thread) I assume that this is also the case for them. Legendary iconic weapons that the playwer would canonically be depicted with

XI is a bit of the anomaly between the three titles mentioned. There was never an actual depiction of the relic weapons as being the icon for the jobs. All that was ever associated was the weapon type, the artifact armors, and MAYBE the old crappy AF weapon (only a few jobs on that one, I think).

To tell you the truth I wish there was relic armors as well that upgraded. I associate gear as more repeated iconic sets to Final Fantasy. Artifact Armor is the core visual identity each job is based off.

The easy out on that one is the glamour system. Not the same, I know, but it at least gives you the visual option.